Original Post
Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
Hari Sharma 1/30/2007 12:25:00 AM EST | SEBS has members from all geographic regions of Nepal and is uniquely placed to make positive and un-biased contribution to this current crisis. SEBS-NA wants to create an atmosphere for a friendly discussion aimed to bring about the real problems facing the terai region of the country at the moment. We are with the theme “Himal, Pahad, Terai-Kohi Chaina Parai”-a popular slogan in the nation right now.
Objective of the discussion is to understand the following issues:
1) History of the issue- how did all this start? What is the role of different stakeholders of the nation?
2) Specific areas of discrimination taking place.
3) Legal, social-political and structural changes required to move ahead from this stalemate. How do the demands of several organizations from the Terai region compare with the real changes needed in the nation?
We also plan to have a conference(s) if we really feel that such conferences will enhance our understanding of the situation better. If you do want to have local conferences and or want to participate in conference calls to have a discussion on the issue, do let us know at sebsna@sebsonline.org.
Since this is a serious issue, please understand that we will be moderating this discussion. However, this does not mean we plan to edit/delete posts without a reason. Please abide by the following rules/guidelines while making a positive contribution on this issue.
Please be polite and courteous and treat others as you would want them to treat you.
Respect the guidelines for forum use. Respect fellow SEBS-community members, and guests.
Foul Language and obscene images will not be tolerated.
Personal attacks will not be tolerated. If you want to praise or criticize something, give examples as to why it is good or bad; general attacks on a person will not be tolerated.
Responses to this particular thread should be on-topic and pertain to the discussion. Please start a new thread for other topics.
If possible, please use your own identity to facilitate healthy discussions. Again, please understand that we do not intend to censor your posts, but we want to maintain an open discussion without offending each other.
Hari Sharma
Excomm Member-SEBS-NA
|
|
|
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
500b 1/30/2007 7:28:53 PM EST | I dont think all the points are being covered. What is the problem.. - is it the Indians settling in Nepal and claiming nepalese citizenship
- A society unwilling to come in terms with its minority folks ( again I don;t think maidesi folks are traditional "minority" considering their number though it might be otherwise in terms of influence)
-
- Or it is the Caste system sleeping with the 200 plus years of shah rule...that promoted caste( bahun/chettri) system, central rule( kathmandu vs rural folks) and certain class(rana shah) even within the caste .
I think the root problem...if we are thinking interms of a solution..it is the last one...which has affected the way we view people from terai....'as if' being nepali was to use nepalese language...wear daura surwal, celebrate dashain.....symbols actively promoted in the last century.. ------ What we need is a change in the attitude..do you think a simple constitutional change will bring about the change in the attitude.?? Iam not saying change in constitution i.e. proportinal represenation will not help ...but I don;t think this will solve the real problem. Wasn't it always...tyo madhise ....tyo nepali....not really pahade vs madhise Even the newars had to struggle for theri identity... How can we bring about a change in attitude... Comments??? |
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
680 Anand 1/30/2007 8:18:06 PM EST | The change in attitude will take a while to happen. I think what you mentioned as the root cause is right on target.
Change in attitude will take some time but here is how we can accelerate the process:
1) Federal structure where parts of Terai have quite a bit of power.
2) Inclusion of Hindi and as a national language ( year Hindi, just so happens that its spoken in north India too, but thats the unifying language of Terai)
3) Inclusion of Dhoti as a national dress
If proper democracy is practiced I would think in 10-15 years you will have some Yadav as the head of government or head of state. The attitude of what Nepal is will slowly start changing from what people pecieve Nepal to be. Rather than how it is currently defined, it wil be mixture of what is Pahad and whats Madhesh.
|
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai- WHy can't we think differently?
FIRANTE 1/30/2007 9:40:51 PM EST | Well, its nice tha tthe SEBSers ae being concerned about the situation back home.
I dont understand why so many organizations are blindly following the herd with out understanding the real "root cause" behind the present crisis.
I do understand it takes a long time for change..for any kind of change. A sudden and abrupt change is not good most of the time. Changes have to be gradual and inclusive.
What all need to understand at the present situation is that its not a regional, communal or constitutional problem. The root cause behind all this and the maoist problem all are traceable to the "common enemies" of all the developing countries of the world. The root causes are ILLITERACY, UNEMPLOYMENT, LACK OF PROPER AND EDEQUATE COMMUNICATION FACILITIES, LACK OF PROPER TRANSPORTATION, and moreoever, A LACK OF AWARENESS among the country men.
Had Nepal had a good infrastructure, good education, employment for all and good comunication and transportation facilities we would not have to face the present ciris, the maoist problem and any other problems of this kind. If all the different communities start such so called “revolutions” we can only imagine how bad will be the situation of the country. What if Bahuns, Chhetris, Thakuris, Newars, Magars, Gurungs, Rais, Tharus, Chepangs, Sherpas etc all start the same kind of “revolution? I know there are communities from each above mentioned groups where people are left behind, where they don’t have access to basic human needs (proper education, employement, proper representation to name a few…)..should all the communities start violent “revolutions” ? Nepal has been so long (till the last few years) well known around the world as a land of peace and harmony. People should not waging violent “revolutions” in disguise of their “rights”. As I have mentioned above, if our country only had good transportation and communication facilities, there would have been no talks about different languages, “pahades and Madhesis and Kirats” etc. After all how big is our country? There should be no communal problems when we all have lived in peace and harmony for such a long time in the past. Another very important thing the so called “leaders” inciting violence in the name of revolution have to realize is how much harm are they doing to their own fellow country men and to the all already poor infrastructure that took several decades to build. Do they realize how long it will take the next government to replace all the infrastructure that they destroy in the name of “revolution”? Do they realize how many people get killed in the process? I know its easy for them because they do not get into the streets and their kids are not the ones to be killed. May be they would realize the loss if someone from their family would be the one to be killed in the “revolution”. I know its easy for them and they make it sound great by declaring some one a “martyr”. But does that “martyship” take care of the problems of the family of the deceased one? Do they realize how the kids will feel without their father? How the wife will feel without her husband? How the aging parents will feel seeing their son die? Who takes care of the family? Who replaces the loss of the bread winner of the family? Mere “martyrship” does not find solution to the problems the family will be facing after the death of their loved ones. Another important thing that everyone should have seen in the history of the so called revolutions (may it be the revolution of 2007 BS, 2036 BS, 2047 BS, 2063 BS etc ) is that are our leaders are only capable of inciting people in doing something destructive. I know they can get thousands of people in the streets for “bandhas” “chakka Jaams” etc. They can get all the college youths on the street to set buildings on fire, break street lamps, vandalize vehicles to name a few. Has anyone seen any incident where those “leaders” have been able to mobilize people for something constructive? Have our “leaders” even been able to gather a good number of people for building roads, schools, hospitals etc? NEVER. If the leaders had their charm to influence people for positive constructive work, Nepal would have been developed a long time back. And also, may it be those “madhesi” or “kirat” leaders; have their thought about bringing changes through minor changes changes from the grass root level? Have they ever thought whether their local schools and hospitals have been managed properly? Have their VDC and City’s budget been spended properly and efficiently in a transparent manner? Well, why would they bother to do so…it doesn’t bring them in light if they start getting involved in such constructive things. Have they ever thought of doing something constructive by gathering such a huge mass for numerous days? NEVER….. What everyone has to understand is that if those “leaders” get into power in the future, they will forget those issues that they raised in the past (the issues that caused lot of deaths and destruction to the infrastructure). Nepal was gaining momentum in developmental aspects after the re introduction of democracy in 2047 BS. I know it was not dramatic and magical. Things cant happen over night. But there were positive changes taking place slowly. Why cant our “leaders” be positive and constructive? Why cant we all think about developing our country? Why not think about a few good highways to connect all different communities…Madhesis and Pahades, Kirats etc…Why cant we develop industries and factories so that all Pahades and Madhesi get employment?...Have those leaders ever thought about making sure that all the Nepalese get proper education, good access to medical facilities, electricity, roads, employment etc…?? Changing things in paper does not bring about changes in the life of the people. Would people care what the form of government is in the country if they have their basic needs of their daily life fulfilled? I remember reading something like “unique features of Nepal” in one of our text books. Is Nepal adding another unique feature by being “the country with most Chakka Jams and Bandhas and Violent forms of revolution” ?
Why cant we resolve problems through alternative channels when all other countries of the world can resolve their problems through alternative channels? I know this has been too long for most of the readers to go through it. But for those who took their time to make it to the end, thanks for your time. Hope this means something to the readers and all the nepalis. Lets all try to make change in the country through positive constructive works..
|
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
" " 1/31/2007 12:13:06 PM EST | Anand Why dont we call Nepal as part of India (as Madhuri once said ),one more "prant" added to "Hindustan".That would incompass everything.One step and one big leap.What do you think?
Quote: Originally posted by 680 Anand
1) Federal structure where parts of Terai have quite a bit of power.
2) Inclusion of Hindi and as a national language ( year Hindi, just so happens that its spoken in north India too, but thats the unifying language of Terai)
3) Inclusion of Dhoti as a national dress
Last edited on 1/31/2007 2:36:24 PM EST |
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
" " 1/31/2007 12:14:41 PM EST | Anand
Why dont we call Nepal as part of India (as Madhuri once said ),one more "prant" added to "Hindustan".That would incompass everything.One step and one big leap.What do you think? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: Originally posted by 680 Anand 1) Federal structure where parts of Terai have quite a bit of power. 2) Inclusion of Hindi and as a national language ( year Hindi, just so happens that its spoken in north India too, but thats the unifying language of Terai) 3) Inclusion of Dhoti as a national dress
|
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
loknath332B 1/31/2007 9:14:33 PM EST | The situation in southern Nepal is worsening and I see that we are heading towards a full-fledged civil war. More saddening is the fact that this civil war is going to be based on race. Goit's letter (in another post) clearly indicates the impending civil war in the terai. There are a large and significant number of people of pahadi origin in terai and in many places they outnumber the madhesis. The region adjoining Biratnagar, for instance Jhorahat where the Madhesi Janadhikar Forun (MJF) cadres attacked, is padhadi dominated region. Most areas in Sunsari, Morang and Jhapa that lie to the north of Mahendra highway and the areas adjoining the highway are dominated by people of pahadi origin. If the madhesi fundamentalists continue their activities people of pahadi origin will start to retaliate and the situation will get worse.
You do not need to be from terai to see the obvious discrimination against the people of madhesi origin in Nepal. They are highly under-represented in government, the armed and the police forces, the judiciary and virtually every branch of governance. The recent uprising (it is not merely some royalists’ conspiracy to create havoc) is an indication of the frustration among the madhesi because of this prevalent discrimination. Whoever might have instigated this event (it is of no concern now), but now it is turning into a popular uprising. And like most popular uprisings there are some genuinely appropriate demands. The uprising is based on these genuine demands and most madhesi out in the streets want to see their genuine demands fulfilled. However, some extremist factions are trying to tap this uprising to their benefit. Goit and Jwala are two of these groups. They have been demanding repatriation (?) of the people of the pahadi origin since long before this uprising started. Now they are trying to tap this madhesi uprising to make their illogical demands.
Where does the repatriation issue stand? People of pahadi origin have been living in many parts of the terai since 3/4 and even more generations. In many parts, especially in the eastern terai, they are the majority groups. For these people going back to pahad is meaningless. They have a sense of belonging and all their material wealth in the terai. If they are forced to go to pahad (as Goit claims) where they do not belong, the only alternative for them would be to retaliate. Looking at the current state of events in the terai, this retaliation stage is approaching, and sadly it is approaching at an alarming rate. Unless some sensible leader causes a restraint on the present activities, god help Nepal.
 |
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
680 Anand 1/31/2007 10:02:23 PM EST | Loknath dai,
You are right, who started this movement is irrelevant now.Nepal Government need to send a strong signal to the people that they are serious about resolving this issue before its too late. Sadly, the address my Girja was not strong enough, it seems. The longer the government wonders whether its the royal infltrator or hindu fanatic or its really the common people, the more supporter Goit and Jwala Singh will get.
The home minister must resign and offer sincere apology for firing at protestors. And it must be done fast. All Madhesi I know are seeing it as an uprising of the type that was against Gyanendra's rule, it has to be treated the same way.
As far as Goit's letter is concerned. Its meaningless at theis point. No one supports it. There are many Madhesis in Pahad. We Madhesis are well aware that civil war is as bad for Madhesh as it is for Pahad.
This anger has suddenly boiled, and the most sensible thing to do is calm it down-- at least temporarily. Some clear signal has to be sent. Sitaula must resign and offer an apology. Baburam and Prachanda must apologised for calling the leaders of Terai as by products. They are as good as Prachanda and Baburam. Its too late for sermon about communal harmony. |
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
Dude 1/31/2007 10:43:57 PM EST |
Quote: Originally posted by 680 Anand
If proper democracy is practiced I would think in 10-15 years you will have some Yadav as the head of government or head of state.
According to Paramendra Bhagat, in his own words, He is the 2nd most important person in Nepal, after Madhav Nepal. He says that Madhav Nepal will be first President and then him. |
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
kanchhi 2/2/2007 4:11:18 PM EST |
Does that mean "If proper democracy is practiced I would think in 10-15 years you will have some Bhagat as the head of government or head of state."
Quote: Originally posted by Dude
Quote: Originally posted by 680 Anand
According to Paramendra Bhagat, in his own words, He is the 2nd most important person in Nepal, after Madhav Nepal. He says that Madhav Nepal will be first President and then him.
|
|
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
680 Anand 2/2/2007 5:19:40 PM EST | Ke, I think everything should be open for discussion. The whole idea is to question even conventional wisdom. You should try to bring forward your arguments, rather than saying that there something that are not open for discussion.
When a Bihari looking Madhesis who is a citizen of Nepal from Janakpur talks to a Bihari looking Madhesis from Birgunj who is also a Nepali citizen, they talk in Hindi. When my dad talks to his boss who is also from the Terai he doesn't not speak in maithili or Nepali, he talks in Hindi. When you talk to poor Madheshi selling vegetable in Kathmandu, what language do you use? Do you talk to him in Maithili or Bhojpuri? Or do you talk to him in Hindi? Thats precisely why Hindi should be considered as another national language of Nepal. You can ask some other Madhesis about this too.
When the question is about redefining the very fabric of what Nepal has stood for, the old fabric is quite meaningless. Nepali language for the Madhesis is that of the colonizer (read the article by Skhudev Shah), who has never treated us well. It’s perfectly natural for us to question why Nepali should be the only language of the country we are citizen of.
Nepali language is of value to you because it is your mother tongue. It is of value to me because that’s what many people in Nepal speak. However, It has no sentimental value to me, if anything it is the language of people who have never treated the Madhesis as one of there own
Last edited on 2/2/2007 5:20:53 PM EST |
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
janta 2/2/2007 5:56:23 PM EST | | I don't think a lot of Madhesi people speak hindi. Its not the case in western terai. I don't know about the easter terai. It seems that there are few people in terai of Koshi,Sagarmatha and Janakpur who speak hindi according to Anand. What percent of people speak hindi in nepal ? 5%. Your family might be an "extreme" case since you mentioned that your mother is an indian and your father a nepali and you said that you plan to marry an indian girl. Are all people like you? |
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
Ke 2/2/2007 6:16:16 PM EST | All that talk about Nepali having no sentimental value and such does not mean anything. It is an official language that most people can understand and used for official purposes. No one forces you to use nepali. If you were to have your way, we should have thousands of national languages!! what's the point? Maybe in Janakpur, people all speak Hindi. But again, vast swaths of the Terai, just like the person above mentioned, do not speak Hindi as their tongue. You can try to distort that fact, but it just isn't true. As for never being treated as nepali, the sad fact is that, most nepalis feel that way. Between class, caste and ethnicities, there is no respect. As a matter of fact, even among the madhesi community, there is that same prejudice. The problem is a nepali problem and not a madhesi (or madhise) problem. The day you stopped talking of rights and justice and instead started talking about own state and hindi as a language with very little merit, I've felt that it is a wrong direction that I have to oppose. |
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
GM 2/2/2007 6:16:25 PM EST | Anand, I do not think your logic makes sense. I speak in Newari to my mom. I speak in Newari to the shopkeeper down the street. My dad also speaks in Newari in his business. Now should we have Newari as another national language of Nepal? Same will be the case for Gurung, Rai, Tamang, Magar, Sherpa and the list will go on. If we are treating Madhesi as the National language, then we should treat all the other languages such as Newari, Gurung, Sherpa and all languages as national languages. I do not think one language should be more special than others. The reason for having one national language is for convenience. Now if we are having more than, one then why even have a national language? So either we need to have Nepali as our one and only national language or we need to recognize all the languages as national languages. I am with you in equal rights, votes, and etc but not in this one. I bet that if Madhesi was to be the national language, all the communities will fight for their languages to be national languages as well. I will personally be fighting for Newari as well. It will be a never ending fight. And this issue is not unique to Nepal. There are many people in the US who cannot speak English. There are tons of Chinese people in China town in NY who only know Chinese and they can get by fine. There are millions of Mexcians who can get by talking only in Spanish in the US. Now the US is the greatest democracy, do people make as big of deal as you? |
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
680 Anand 2/2/2007 6:37:53 PM EST | GM,
I think the difference between the examples you gave and Nepal, is that Madhesis are about 35-40% of the population. If 35-40% of your population think that they want Hindi as a national language, because they find it to be their unfying language of all Madhesis, I would think it has a strong case.
I do not speak Hindi at home. I speak maithili. I was saying that Hindi was the unifying language of the Madhesh, actually only rarely do peple speak in Hindi at home. But its the language spoken outside home. Its clearly the unifying language of Madheshis.
If Nepal divided into different states, and Madhesh is going to be a state. It can have its own regional language and they can decide what to have. I think they will decide to keep Hindi rather than Bhojpuri or Maithili.
However, the most important thing for democracy to survive is Nepal is to practice the one-mam-one vote idea. Hindi as another as a national language is certainly not as important as other issues like federalism and proper representation in all aspects of the state.
|
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
janta 2/2/2007 7:27:23 PM EST | Anand, are you saying that 35-40% in Nepal speak hindi??
I know that people don't speak hindi in western Nepal. Dhanusha and Janankpur is not only terai in Nepal. Your father speaks hindi wiht his boss does not mean that hindi is the unifying language in terai.
The population you mention (35-40%) living in Terai are not all the type of madhesi you are talking about. 35-40% population of terai also includes, Tharus, kamaiya, "pahadis living in terai" and so on.
I bet there are more kirat in nepal than the "Madhesi" that anand is discribing (the ones who consider hindi as their unifying language and so on).
|
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
680 Anand 2/2/2007 8:15:26 PM EST | janta,
You should read what I write more carefully. I said 35-40% are Madhesis ( check nepal GOV wesbite on population statistics),. They speak languages that are more similar to Hindi than Nepali. When people with this language speak to each other, they tend to speak in Hindi. Therefore, its fair to say that Hindi is the unfying language od Madhesh.
|
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
Topaz 2/2/2007 9:22:35 PM EST | About different languages spoken in Nepal go to http://www.cbs.gov.np/Population/Monograph/Chapter%2004%20%20Language.pdf Population monograph chapter 4 by Dr. Yogendra P. Yadav. Dr. Yadav (Madheshi perhaps) states less than 1.5% of nepalese people speak Hindi as a mother tongue. How can Hindi be unifying language if it spoken by such a small fraction of the nation's peopulation. Below are the data from Census Bureau Distribution of population of Nepal by mother tongue
Year Year
Mother Tongue 1952/54 % 2001 %
A. Indo-European 6351899 77.13 17982769 79.1
1 Nepali 4013567 48.74 11053255 48.61
2 Maithili 1024780 12.44 2797582 12.3
3 Bhojpuri 477281 5.8 1712536 7.53
4 Tharu 359594 4.37 1331546 5.86
5 Awadhi 328408 3.99 560744 2.47
6 Rajbansi 35543 0.43 129829 0.57
7 Hindi 80181 0.97 105765 0.47
8 Urdu 32545 0.4 174840 0.77
B Sino-Tibetan 1795337 21.08 4183995 18.4
9 Tamang 494745 6.01 1179145 5.19
10 Newar 383184 4.65 825458 3.63
11 Magar 273780 3.32 770116 3.39
12 Rai, Kirat 236049 2.87 -
13 Gurung 162192 1.97 338925 1.49
14 Limbu 145511 1.77 333633 1.47
15 Bhote, Sherpa 70132 0.85 129771 0.57
16 Sunuwar 17299 0.21 26611 0.12
17 Danuwar 9138 0.11 31849 0.14
18 Thakali 3307 0.04 6441 0.03
C. Austro-Asiatic 16751 0.2 40260 0.2
19 Satar 16751 0.2 - -
20 Santhali – – 40260 0.18
D. Dravidian – – 28615 0.1
E. Other 70340 0.85 28615 0.13
F. Not stated 752 0.01 503295 2.2
Total 8235079 100 22738934 100
:
Source Population Census (1952/54-2001)
Last edited on 2/2/2007 9:26:07 PM EST |
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
GM 2/2/2007 9:26:40 PM EST | Anand, You said that people rarely use Hindi at home in Nepal. The national language should have a deep root in the society. So why would you want to use Hindi as a national language when it is not even spoken at home? If you were to argue that Hindi is used used in business, then why not use English, the only global language and language of choice for business. Also, if 30 - 40% want Hindi as a national language, 60% - 55% may not want it as a national language. This is not because they are against Hindi but because of inconvenience and economical and logistical costs of having two official languages in a small country. Again, I am for equal rights and so on. Think about the situation of a Rai in Tapeljung. Given that he has to learn to speak in Nepali for official work in Kathmandu, he will need to learn Hindi to work in Birtanagar. It will also work the otherway. A teacher from Lahan will not get a job of teacher in Taplejung unless he/she knows Rai language. Now, this is an enormous waste or resources and time for non Hindi speakers just because certain people want their language to be official language. Also, think about the greater cost of doing business, which will be passed on to consumers, who are poor in the first place. You have to advertise in different languages. Your local government documents may be in different languages and you will probably need an official translation if they were to be used in other regions, which means more money. You will need text books in different languages in different regions, which means more money spent. Now given these enormous cost, do you think it is worth having more than one national language? Remember if Hindi is accepted as a national language, other communities will not stay quiet. So if you are a businessman from Birgunj and want to expand the business to Solukhumbu, you will need to learn Sherpa/Tibetan languages? If you want to buy a real estate in Kathmandu, what if Nagarpalika uses Newar as an official language? Are you willing to pay this price just for sake of having the language you like as the national language? |
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
GM 2/2/2007 9:29:00 PM EST |
Quote: Originally posted by 680 Anand
janta,
You should read what I write more carefully. I said 35-40% are Madhesis ( check nepal GOV wesbite on population statistics),. They speak languages that are more similar to Hindi than Nepali. When people with this language speak to each other, they tend to speak in Hindi. Therefore, its fair to say that Hindi is the unfying language od Madhesh.
Now, how different is Hindi from Nepali? I think Hindi and Nepali are more similar than Newari and Nepali, or Gurung language and Nepali and so on. This argument is just ridiculuous. |
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
janta 2/2/2007 10:50:05 PM EST | Now janta is laughing at Anand.
Did you see the statistics posted by Topaz. Your hindi speaking people are just 0.47% in 2001. They might have boomed and become 40% by 2007. Who knows!! Just wait 4-5 months when they will reach 90% and we will make hindi our national language. To put it the other way lets wait till CA.
holdon, there are 0.18% people speaking santhali. This could be a good candidate for the national unifying language.
|
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
junge 2/3/2007 12:18:16 AM EST | There is no argument that there should be only one national language. The figures show why Nepali is the uniting language in Nepal and I will not even go into the discussion about Hindi being the united language for the "whole" country. Tarai is itself a vastly different region. Each district is different from another in many ways. My hometown is Nepalgunj and I have spent countless summers and winters in Nepalgunj. Yes, we use Hindi in the markets, but we rarely use Nepali as frequently as we use Hindi.
My grandparents were born in Kathmandu but they have lived Nepalgunj for more than 50 years now. I will never agree to anyone who asks my grandparents to go back and you know why? Because they are Madhise . They may look "Pahade" but they have lived there for so long that they love Madhes, they love tarai. After all, are we not all Nepalis? Is this not a time for Nepalis to unite?
The government in the past has not been in favor Madhises. Living in the Madhes, I have seen that myself. The sukumbasi movement, giving pahadi people free land in the tarai by clearing the forest, is the biggest mistake King Mahendra made during the Panchayat era. Sukumbasis got addicted to their free land. They kept on moving one forest clearing to another claiming free land and destroying the fabric of life in tarai. The sukumbasi movement, I believe, was a result of the socialist ideology that King Mahendra held. I don't think there was a direct effort to suppress the ethnic Madhesis even though there is no doubt that they were suppressed as a result.
The nation is going through a transition for gods sake. Nepal is barely limping towards a CA election. Now with this movement, the country has fallen down into a ditch. The event that started this whole movement was a real unfortunate incident. The Maoist cadres who who were involved should be punished. I think a CA assembly will be a much better step to take to reverse the discriminations that have happened. This movement will only divide the whole nation into pieces even though it is based on eliminating discriminations that, in my view, happened.
Madhise brothers, we should work together to help our motherland cross this transitory stage. The new Nepal will surely usher in a new age that delivers equal right, not just to, but to all minorities who have been oppressed, whose have been denied their basic rights. Lets just stay together now. Lets not divide at this crucial moment. |
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
Topaz 2/3/2007 1:50:11 AM EST | Another interesting categorization of nepali people
CASTE/ETHNIC GROUPS OF NEPAL CASTE OR ETHNIC GROUP POPULATION PERCENT OF TOTAL
CASTE Population %
Chetri 3,593,496 15.80
Hill-Brahmin 2,896,477 12.74
Magar 1,622,421 7.14
Tharu 1,533,879 6.75
Tamang 1,282,304 5.64
Newar 1,245,232 5.48
Muslim 971,056 4.27
Kami 895,954 3.94
Yadav 895,423 3.94
Rai 635,151 2.79
Gurung 543,571 2.39
Damai/Dholi 390,305 1.72
Limbu 359,379 1.58
Thakuri 334,120 1.47
Sarki 318,989 1.40
Teli 304,536 1.34
Chamar, Harijan, Ram 269,661 1.19
Koiri 251,274 1.11
Kurmi 212,842 0.94
Sanyasi 199,127 0.88
Dhanuk 188,150 0.83
Musahar 172,434 0.76
Dusad/Paswan/Pasi 158,525 0.70
Sherpa 154,622 0.68
Sonar 145,088 0.64
Kewat 136,953 0.60
Terai-Brahmin 134,496 0.59
Baniya 126,971 0.56
Gharti/Bhujel 117,568 0.52
Mallah 115,986 0.51
Kalwar 115,606 0.51
Kumal 99,389 0.44
Hajam/Thakur 98,169 0.43
Kanu 95,826 0.42
Rajbansi 95,812 0.42
Sunuwar 95,254 0.42
Sudhi 89,846 0.40
Lohar 82,637 0.36
Tatma 76,512 0.34
Khatwe 74,972 0.33
Dhobi 73,413 0.32
Majhi 72,614 0.32
Nuniya 66,873 0.29
Kumhar 54,413 0.24
Danuwar 53,229 0.23
Chepang 52,237 0.23
Haluwai 50,583 0.22
Rajput 48,454 0.21
Kayastha 46,071 0.20
Budhae 45,975 0.20
Marwadi 43,971 0.19
Santhal/Satar 42,698 0.19
Dhagar/Jhagar 41,764 0.18
Bantar 35,839 0.16
Barae 35,434 0.16
Kahar 34,531 0.15
Gangai 31,318 0.14
Lodha 24,738 0.11
Rajbhar 24,263 0.11
Thami 22,999 0.10
Dhimal 19,537 0.09
Bhote 19,261 0.08
Bing/Binda 18,720 0.08
Bhediyar/Gaderi 17,729 0.08
Nurang 17,522 0.08
Yakkha 17,003 0.07
Darai 14,859 0.07
Tajpuriya 13,250 0.06
Thakali 12,973 0.06
Chidimar 12,296 0.05
Pahari 11,505 0.05
Mali 11,390 0.05
Bangali 9,860 0.04
Chhantel 9,814 0.04
Dom 8,931 0.04
Kamar 8,761 0.04
Bote 7,969 0.04
Brahmu/Baramu 7,383 0.03
Gaine 5,887 0.03
Jirel 5,316 0.02
Adivasi/Janajati 5,259 0.02
Duga 5,169 0.02
Churaute 4,893 0.02
Badi 4,442 0.02
Meche 3,763 0.02
Lepcha 3,660 0.02
Halkhor 3,621 0.02
Punjabi/Sikh 3,054 0.01
Kisan 2,876 0.01
Raji 2,399 0.01
Byangsi 2,103 0.01
Hayu 1,821 0.01
Koche 1,429 0.01
Dhunia 1,231 0.01
Walung 1,148 0.01
Jaine 1,015 0.00
Munda 660 0.00
Raute 658 0.00
Yehlmo 579 0.00
Patharkata/Kuswadiya 552 0.00
Kusunda 164 0.00
Dalit/Unidentified 173,401 0.76
Unidentified Caste/Ethnicity 231,641 1.02
NEPAL 22,736,934 100.00
|
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
cabinet member 2/3/2007 2:19:01 AM EST | Government of Nepal Council of Ministers
| | Mr. Girija Prasad Koirala | PM, Royal Palace, Defence | Sunsari -5 @ |
| | Mr. K. P. Sharma Oli | DPM, Foreign Affairs | Jhapa- 2 @ | | Mr. Amik Sherchan | DPM, Health and Population | Ramechhap |
| | Mr. Gopal Man Shrestha | Physical Planning and Works | Syanja-2 | | Dr. Ram Sharan Mahat | Finance | Nuwakot-2 | | Mr. Mahanta Thakur | Agriculture and Co-operatives | Sarlahi-5 @ | | Mr. Krishna Prasad Sitaula | Home | Jhapa-1 @ | | Mr. Prabhu Narayan Chaudhari | Land Reform and Management | Tharu Community@
| | Mr. Narendra Bikram Nembang | Law, Justice, and Parliamentary Affairs | Jhapa -3 @ | | Mr. Rajendra Prasad Pandey | Local Development | Dhading -3 | | Mr. Pradip Kumar Gyawali | Culture, Tourism and Civil Aviation |
| | Dr. Mangal Siddhi Manandhar | Education and Sports | Kathmandu-5 | | Mr. Hridayesh Tripathi | Industry, Commerce and Supplies | Nawalparasi-3 @ |
| | State Ministers
Mr. Dilendra Prasad Badu |
Information and Communications |
Darchula-1 | | Urmila Aryal | Women, Children and Social Welfare | Parsa-4 @ | | Mr. Man Bahadur Biswokarma | Environment, Science and Technology |
| | Mr. Dharma Nath Prasad Saha | General Administration | Siraha-5 @ | | Mr. Ramesh Lekhak | Labour and Transport Management | Kanchanpur-3 @ | | Mr. Gyanendra Bahadur Karki | Water Resources @- Constituency of Terai
| Bhojpur
|
Last edited on 2/3/2007 2:31:16 AM EST |
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
680 Anand 2/3/2007 9:51:57 AM EST | The old data of 1 person in the hill= 1.08 person in Terai was obtained only using the eastern development region. This includes the entire country. This
So when look at the entire country the differences between Hilli and Terai folks only be becomes greater (1 Non-Terai= 1.12 Hills). That is equivalient to 24 extra sheet for the Phadis.
If you just have 2 divisions: Terai and Non-Terai, the differences are about 1 Terai-wasi= 1.16 Non-Terai wasi. That is equivalient to denying 34 extra seats for Terai folks.
This data is obtained from the article published in Nepalnews. com by Bijaya, perhaps the same person who has been making arguments all the same lines in sebs. Here is a link to the article: http://www.nepalnews.com/archive/2007/others/guestcolumn/feb/guest_columns_01.php
|
| Seats in Parliament | Population Per Constituency |
|
|
|
| | Mountain |
| 10 | 34000 | | Hilly |
| 106 | 73000 | | Terai |
| 89 | 82000 |
Suppose we let the folks form mountain have what they do:
1 person in in the Hills= 1.12 in the Terai
That converts to 24 extra seat for the Pahad in the parliament.
If you just have 2 divisions: Terai and Non-Terai, the differences are about 1 Terai-wasi= 1.
17 Non-Terai wasi. See Data below
|
| Seats in Parliament | Population Per Constituency | | Non-Terai |
| 116 | 69638 | | Terai |
| 89 | 82000 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Last edited on 2/3/2007 9:55:03 AM EST |
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
680 Anand 2/3/2007 9:59:24 AM EST | I made a mistake in the last post:
Its:
1 Hill person = 1.12 Terai
Equivalient 24 less seats in parliament.
and
1 Terai eprson =1.17 Non-Terai person
Equivalient to 34 less seats in the parliament.
Last edited on 2/3/2007 10:00:18 AM EST |
|
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
FIRANTE 2/3/2007 12:27:07 PM EST |
Do we have any facts or statistics to prove that 35-40% of the people speak Hindi as their primary language? How about the percentage of nepalis who can speak Nepali? I know even most to the Pahades can speak Hindi. There is a difference between people being able to speak a certain language and people being able to communicate in one and only language.
Also, how do you know that the Terai people want Hindi to be their formal language?
Is it just a few people trying to take advantage of the vast number of innocent people?
How do you even know that the Terai people want a separate state? Has the general public ever wanted to have a different language language as their primary language?
I am more than sure that the people in Terai (or any nepali in general ) would not care about wat form of government they have or wat is their official language as long as their basic needs are met..as long as their kids can go to school, as long as they can work, as long as they havevaccess to basic needs like food, water, electricity, telephone, and other basic needs. There are a lot many things that need greater attention that wasting our time and destructing the infrastructure that took years to build.....it just doesnt make any sense to see whats going on in nepal at present...
How much will it cost to the nation to go through all this ....Also there are already many areas where schooling is done in their local language at the primary language.
The Education Ministry also announced that more schools will start educating the kids in their language (meaning language thats primarily spoken at home..).
This should be the last thing people should make a big deal out of.
We have much more important issues to be taken care of at this time.
How many people living in Jumla, HUmla, Rukum , Rolpa and other montaineous regions have the facilities the people in Terai have?
There is one article in BBC about a school going kid in Rolpa (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6309475.stm). This might help you know the situation of the people living in those regions.
You can compare the facts and see for yourself how justfied is what you have been demanding for Terai...
Also this is a time where we have to look at things in a broader sense...Its not only Terai that makes Nepal...We need to develop all parts of the country...
This is just my thought.. I knwo this wont make any changes in the way you think ....but try to broaden your mind and think about the nation as a whole...look at what other fellow country men have......
Jay Nepal....
Quote: Originally posted by 680 Anand
GM,
I think the difference between the examples you gave and Nepal, is that Madhesis are about 35-40% of the population. If 35-40% of your population think that they want Hindi as a national language, because they find it to be their unfying language of all Madhesis, I would think it has a strong case.
I do not speak Hindi at home. I speak maithili. I was saying that Hindi was the unifying language of the Madhesh, actually only rarely do peple speak in Hindi at home. But its the language spoken outside home. Its clearly the unifying language of Madheshis.
If Nepal divided into different states, and Madhesh is going to be a state. It can have its own regional language and they can decide what to have. I think they will decide to keep Hindi rather than Bhojpuri or Maithili.
However, the most important thing for democracy to survive is Nepal is to practice the one-mam-one vote idea. Hindi as another as a national language is certainly not as important as other issues like federalism and proper representation in all aspects of the state.
|
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
Topaz 2/3/2007 3:50:05 PM EST | I don't trust data provided by Bijaya. How can there be only 10 seats for MPs in Himali region when there are 18 himali districts. See the map of nepal at
http://www.cbs.gov.np/Population/National%20Report%202001/default.htm
This is iterative map. If you click on any district, it gives the summery of its population.
18 himali districts are Darchula, Bajhang, Bajura, Humla, mugu, Jumla, Kalikot, Dolpa, Mustang, Manang, Gorkha, Dhading, rasuwa, Sindhupalchowk, Dolakha, Solukhumbu, sankhuwasabha and Taplejung. Among these districts, Humla, mugu, Dolpa, Mustang, Manang, rasuwa, Dolakha, Solukhumbu, sankhuwasabha and Taplejung are core Himalayan districts. Jumla, Sindhupalchowk are mostly the part of himalayas. Darchula, Bajhang, Bajura and kalikot have substancial portion (appx. 50%) of himali land. Gorkha and Dhading streaches from tibet border to all the way south near mugling and Abu khaireni. Thus their northern parts (1/3) are also the part of Himali region. Above are the districts with substantial portion of Himali region only. Districts like Ramechhap, Lamjung and Kaski which have small portion of himali land is not included. Some of the Himali districts have two MPs, ie. Taplejung and perhaps others.
My conclusion from these facts is, Himali region has more MPs than Bijaya and Anand stated.
Hope Anand does his calculation based upon the facts. The problem I have seen in this thread is, people are not able to distinguish between Himali and Pahadi region. I know, Dhading is divided into 3 constituencies. Northern one (from where Buddiman Tamang won last time) is purely himalayan constituency. It touches tibet and most of the people residing are Tamangs. It is few days walk from the district head quater. Since 2/3 of the district (area just west of KTM) is hilly, should we consider northern constutency also a part of hilly region? Look at the facts, try understanding little bit of geography and demography first. Don't be biased towards only one region. Remember Regions are not political boundaries. However districts are. Thus most of southern districts have some portion of hills. Similarly many pahadi districts have himali area and many northern districts have pahadi area.
Last edited on 2/3/2007 4:14:05 PM EST |
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
dumbass 2/3/2007 4:15:17 PM EST | anand why dont you look at your data with a different perspective. lets look at it my way non mountain 1,50,36,000 mountain 3,40,000 this according to you means 1 montainer = 22.68 non-mountainer so why dont you call for all the non- mountainers to fight with mountainers? It seems to me that mountainers have dominated people from both terai and hilly region? look at the margin |
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
dumbass 2/3/2007 4:36:50 PM EST | in fact anand is an idiot. i dont know where he got his data from but i can see that its wrong at its inception. there are 16 districts in the mountain region and with all the districts having at least one constituency and some having two, the region should have more than 16 constituencies and not 10. now about the terai fact, you can not extract a fact from combining all the constituencies from terai. i am from jhapa which is even more underrepresented (in your terms) than dhanusha. there are very few what you call madhesis in jhapa and you can not add jhapa to your madhesis list. there are a lot of districts like that i am sure who dont deserve to be in your madhise list. so using the wrong data as a justification to an arguement wont verify your cause. why dont you clarify more of yourself. |
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
Topaz 2/3/2007 5:58:25 PM EST | Claims made by some people to make hindi as an unifying language of Terai is ridiculous. Hindi is spoken by less than 0.5% of Nepali population. Me being from Terai, don't consider Hindi as our language. My parents don't even know how to speak and so as many older generations in our place. It is used when we go for shopping in near by Indian border town or when we go to Nepalganj. Those people who claim Hindi to be unifying language, have lost their faith and confidence in their own mother tongue. I have seen many people in our country being shy/hesitant in using their own languages even among themselves. They feel other languages are superior than theirs.
Last edited on 2/3/2007 6:33:23 PM EST |
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
Testimonials 2/4/2007 3:32:15 PM EST | Hello All Anand Haters, I have known Anand since last 10 years . I have known him as a very direct person who does not beat around the bush to advocate equality , truth and impartiality. At times he might seem to be stubborn and rigid, but if someone proves him wrong backed by evidences , he would gladly bow down and say " yeah you make sense - you broaden my horizon". yes its coming through my personal experiences. There were instances in high school, where there were few members of our classmates ( who were blessed by teachers and SMT) who tried to act superior over those who were less blessed. I remember him vigorously fighting against that and I still see the same attitude in his postings now- although they seem extreme at times. There is no doubt that Anand believes in communal harmony and it makes me feel sad that some of the sebers have portrayed him as an antisemitic persona and an ethnic cleanser. He is not like some hypocrats who deny that there are issues in MADESH that need immediate attention. The very thought that plagues our mind as a ruling class of people (aristocratic castes from Pahad) should no longer be a driving force in our political arena anymore. Local and ethnic empowerment is the only way out for the current fiasco. The mentality of considering 40% of population as secondary citizens must stop right now - they are not all Bihari Gundas and Dacoits.. They need equal representation in the political arena.. Anand..keep advocating for equality!!! |
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
Topaz 2/4/2007 4:38:17 PM EST | Testimonials,
In this thread, I don't see anyone hating Anand. Not agreeing upon some thoughts does not mean hating. Anand put his thoughts and others commented. Thats it. Anand said Madheshis are discriminated. Thats true everyone agreed. Anand said Madheshis are under represented in parliament in the basis of population. others said, ya true but population should not be the only factor. Anand and others have done research. They have collected facts and presented. Based upon the facts most of the comments are presented in this thread. Thus the discussions in this thread have been very good. Anand mentioned Hindi to be unifying language, others did not agree. Anand said madheshis are under represented by 35 seats in the parliament, others did not agree. They looked at the facts, calculated and commented.
Yes, Anand has argued for betterment of Madhesh. Its good. Madesh problems have to be solved but not at the expense of other regions which has similar problem as of Madesh. If you look at far west and mid west pahad and whole Himalayas, the problems are more severe than that of Terai. Human development index of those regions is low and difficulties faced by those people is much more than that of Terai.
About pahadi domination upon Madheshis, yes its obvious fact. Specially in KTM, Chitwan, pahadis don't consider madeshi as a human being. Its a sad thing and must be stopped immediately. But at the same time which class of pahadis are those? Approximately, 1/3 of Nepal's population is of Terai origin and 1/3 of Nepal's population are either pahadi dalits or adibasis. These people are not the one discriminating madheshis (I don't know if these pahadis also discriminate madhesis in eastern terai). So the people who discriminated madhesis belong to 1/3 of pahadis of upper caste. Among them, many have not settled in Terai and don't come in contact with Madheshis. Thus, when one says Madhesis are dominated by Pahadiyas, its true but by only a small fraction of pahadiyas.
In the basis of representation of madeshi people in parliament, I believe there should be few more seats for madesh but not as much as 17 or 35. I don't think it was intentional discrimination. It happened because geography is also another factor. Madhesi origin representation has been less than the number of seats available for madhesh districts, because, madheshis have right to choose whom they want. In many districts they chose Pahadiyas as their representatives. There is nothing wrong with it. For a nation, its not madheshis or pahadiyas, its nepali that is important thing and problem of madheshis or himalis or pahadiyas should be solved as a problem of whole nation.
Anand has pointed the madhesi issues, argued for it. Thats good. Thats the way we come to better understanding of the problem. Keep it up Anand, no one is hating you as testimonials points out.
|
|
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
Topaz 2/4/2007 7:18:24 PM EST | I agree our country should accept federal system. It is heading towards it and in new constitution made by CA, I believe the Nepal will be federeal democratic. Now the question is what should be its model. Should it be like the one tabled by Maoist based upon ethnic or Linguishtic basis or should it be like once paramendra Bhagat tabled ie. having three states and each states comprising Himal, Pahad and Terai. Should present development regions be made states within Nepal or something else? So far, I liked the model proposed by Paramendra Bhagat. I wish Paramendra puts his idea about federal democratic Nepal in the discussion forum once again. |
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
680 Anand 2/4/2007 11:35:42 PM EST |
Thanks Testimonial and Topaz, you two encouraged me to write again:
The biggest obstacle to modern democracy in the future of Nepal is the dominance of power by upper cast Pahadis. Their resistance to give up power is only natuaral. Ranas were unwilling, Shah’s were unwilling. Gyanendra was defending his case until the very end. Upper cast urban Phadis are human beings too—It is only natural. If Madhesis were in the position of Pahadis, they would be doing the same. The people in power and who are enjoying privileges will always make all kinds of excuses to maintain the status-quo. Baburam, Prachanda, Girija, Madhav Kumar Nepal and Deuba, all the major players are all Pahadi Bahun or Chettri. They will do their best to rig the constitution in their favor. Other urban upper cast Phadis will always support such a rigging, because they benefit from it. They can be defeated, but they won’t be convinced. The focus of the movement should be to bring the regime in Kathmandu to its knees. Protest in the Terai must continue, Janajati’s must join the movement until the 2 major demands are meet: 1) Electoral constituency must be based on population and nothing else. One-man-one vote is the essence of democracy. Like there are axioms in mathematics when you prove a theorem, one-man one vote is the very essence of democracy. The biggest obstacle to modern democracy in the future of Nepal is the dominance of power by upper cast Pahadis. Their resistance to give up power is only Ranas were unwilling, Shah’s were unwilling. Gyanendra was defending his case until the very end. Upper cast urban Phadis are human beings too—It is only natural. If Madhesis were in the position of Pahadis, they would be doing the same. The people in power and who are enjoying privileges will always made all kinds of excuses to maintain the status-quo. Baburam, Prachanda, Girija, Madhav Kumar Nepal and Deuba, all the major players are all Pahadi Bahun or Chettri. They will do their best to rig the constitution in their favor. Other urban Phadis will always support such a rigging, because they benefit from it. T
2) Federal states are a must, but that’s not enough. The constitution must guarantee certain right of the state government that central government cannot take away. Similarly, certain rights of the VDC also must be guaranteed. Whatever the division of states might, one of the prime focus must be to create structural impediments that oppression of one community over another community does not occur. I like the Maoist map better, because I think that decreases the probability of hilly upper cast dominance to power. I do not like the idea of having one unified Madhesis as the Madhesis want, because I see that as an attempt to dominate the entire Nepal.
Last edited on 2/4/2007 11:38:15 PM EST |
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
680 Anand 2/5/2007 12:10:03 AM EST | he biggest obstacle to modern democracy in the future of Nepal is the dominance of power by upper cast Pahadis. Their resistance to give up power is only Ranas were unwilling, Shah’s were unwilling. Gyanendra was defending his case until the very end. Upper cast urban Phadis arehuman beings too—It is only natural. If Madhesis were in the position of Pahadis, they would be doing the same. The people in power and who are enjoying privileges will always made all kinds of excuses to maintain the status-quo.
Baburam, Prachanda, Girija, Madhav Kumar Nepal and Deuba, all the major players are all Pahadi Bahun or Chettri. They will do their best to rig the constitution in their favor. Other urban Phadis will always support such a rigging, because they benefit from it. They can be defeated, but they won’t be convinced. The focus of the movement should be to bring the regime in Kathmandu to its knees. Protest in the Terai must continue, Janajati’s must join the movement until the 2 major demands are meet:
1) Electoral constituency must be based on population and nothing else. One-man-one vote is the essence of democracy. Like there are axioms in mathematics when you prove a theorem, one-man one vote is the very essence of democracy.
Actually, things can get pretty complicated if don’t believe in one-man-one vote. It can be argued that people who are illiterate should not be allowed to vote! Since people for remote areas are not very educated, their vote should be weighted less. What do you think about that? Or only SLC pass should be allowed to vote? How do you like that? Don’t you think that’s outrageous??? So my suggestion, lets stick to one-man-one vote. Let’s go to the basics.
Remember we are about to draft a constitution, that is supposed to exist forever. We are not debating on some economic policy, but rather drafting a constitution. Ramechap has poor economic condition than Janakpur right now, but 200 years from things might just switch. Economy and life style condition in temporary, constitution is forever—at least we want it that way.
Dolpa , Manag, and Humla has had few number of people for constituencies since 1990, but has their economic condition improved at all? If the government is really serious of the economic condition, why haven’t they been declared a special economic zone and why hasn’t the government paid special attention to these states when it come’s economic growth.
Once you believe in one-man- one vote. You will find that the Terai is 36 seats sorts. That’s simple arithmetic really. If you don’t believe in every individual having equal right in having in building the constitution, you can start throwing in the number of infant mortality, land area, nutrition and all that.
2) Federal states are a must, but that’s not enough. The constitution must guarantee certain right of the state government that central government cannot take away. Similarly, certain rights of the VDC also must be guaranteed.
Whatever the division of states might, one of the prime focus must be to create structural impediments that oppression of one community over another community does not occur. I like the Maoist map better, because I think that decreases the probability of hilly upper cast dominance to power.
I do not like the idea of having one unified Madhesis as the Madhesis want, because I see that as an attempt to dominate the entire Nepal.
Last edited on 2/5/2007 12:11:12 AM EST |
|
Re: Himal Pahad Terai- Kohi Chaina Parai
meh 2/5/2007 5:17:53 AM EST | I will try to be honest.
I dont think I have ever really thought of "Madise" as being Nepalese citizens.
I practically grew up in Kathmandu, and my views of Nepal is restricted to what little I have seen outside of it.
I have made fun of them, I have looked down on them, either actively or passively. I am from an upper class family, and thought I was better than them.
Also, I am pretty certain similar feeling were shared between my friends and family.
I thought our rights were of higher priority than theirs.
I can go into more detail example, but I am certain many of you know what I mean.
Now I am not in Nepal, and I am not exactly sure what is really going on.
But I know that I have been wrong. I think I still harbor the some of the same feeling that I have had in the past.
I am a tad bit more mature and understand things a little better.
I think I have done my fair share of exploiting the Madise, the "lower cast" and the poor of nepal. The old system has worked in my favor in almost every aspect. Practically spooned fed everything and accepted the things as they were.
This has been my confession. Its been much easier as I can hide behind the forum.
Its easier to say it from here, as I am thousand of miles away from Nepal.
But we have wronged these peoples for generations.
We dont want the country divided, we want one language, etc.
I am not sure what they want....But I have a feeling that they are trying to have their voices heard.
Its about time I come in terms with my bigotry.
Last edited on 2/5/2007 5:22:27 AM EST |
|
