This is an amazing piece of work in audio journalism by Rabindra Mishra. This was much needed. I hope he similarly conducts more long audio interviews with many other Maoist leaders, and with elements of the regime. I wish he subjected the king to a similar cross questioning. If the king not be available, he could nab Tulsi Giri. Giri would do. All these shady elements need to be brought out of the woodworks. If the political process will not do it, gutsy journalism should shoulder the responsibility. Through this interview Mishra has also made an important political contribution.
Perhaps he will also take my questions over to the democratic camp. (Dinesh Wagle, 7 Leaders, 27 Questions)
BBC Audio File
Rabindra Mishra: King Gyanendra and Prachanda seem to have the key to the political crisis Nepal faces. We have not succeeded in our attempts to interview the king so far. But Prachanda talked to us. This was his first radio interview. Prachanda said if the king were to come forth for a free and fair elections to a constituent assembly, and if such an assembly were to retain a constitutional monarchy, that verdict will be acceptable to him and his party. The monarchy, the republic issue, and the issue of a constituent assembly have been hot, and so we focused mainly on those issues in our talk. My first question to him was as to why is the word "republic" absent in the recent 12 point agreement between the parties and the Maoists.
Prachanda: The essence of that 12 point agreement is to bring an end to the autocratic monarchy by seeking a way out through a constituent assembly. Our goal still is to end up a republic through a constituent assembly. The word "democracy" has been put there in English. But the essence is to bring autocracy to an end, to institutionalize the people's right to self-decision, and to go public with our slogan of a democratic republic among the people.
Rabindra Mishra: That is quite clear from the 12 point agreement. But what I am trying to figure out is are you agreeing to retaining the monarchy in some form, ceremonial or constitutional, if that might lead to a solution?
Prachanda: That is precisely what I am also trying to say. The essence of the 12 point agreement is not to accept the monarchy. It is to struggle against the autocratic monarchy.
Rabindra Mishra: If that is the essence, why is it not clear in the document?
Prachanda: This is an understanding between us and the seven parties. We all know all the seven parties have not come out for a republic with any clarity. But the document is headed towards what we have been saying for a long time now.
Rabindra Mishra: So your final goal is a democratic republic. The UML has the same goal. The Nepali Congress is now neutral on the monarchy question. If the palace were to reach out for reconciliation, how flexible are you willing to be?
Prachanda: We do not expect the palace to reach out if the past is any indication.
Rabindra Mishra: Maybe you have not seen that so far, but now after the 12 point agreement, and after the king returns back, if there are signs, how flexible are you willing to be?
Prachanda: We can comment on that only after we see the nature of such a signal. Our spirit is to move ahead. Our spirit is to take the country towards a republic.
Rabindra Mishra: Both the UML and you say that but, for now, if circumstances lead you to an agreement with the king, how flexible are you willing to be?
Prachanda: So far we have not seen any possibilities of any kind of an agreement with the king.
Rabindra Mishra: You have not seen so far. But to seek a way out of the crisis if you are forced to seek an agreement, how flexible are you willing to be?
Prachanda: We have not given any thought to that. The question about such a possibility is theoretical at best. If there is a solid signal, a genuine attempt to reach out to seek a forward looking solution on behalf of the country, then we can give some thought to it. But so far we have not seen any signs whatsoever. None.
Rabindra Mishra: You have repeatedly talked of state restructuring. If it were to become possible for the palace, the parties and you to together make that state restructuring possible, then you are willing to compromise, right?
Prachanda: That is not true. We went through two rounds of peace talks. During the last talks especially we sought a direct talk with the king to talk about the political, cultural, class-based, regional, sexual, and ethnic problems so as to seek a new structure, but there was an utter lack of interest from the king and the monarchy along those lines. Instead he responded by heaping autocracy. That is why your line of questioning is highly theoretical and mechanical.
Rabindra Mishra: Your 12 point agreement asks for an all party interim government that will take the country to a constituent assembly. But you have a disagreement. The parties want the House revived, you want a roundtable conference of all forces. But you agree on forming an interim government. Will that interim government have a representative of the king or not?
Prachanda: Our roadmap of a roudtable conference, interim government and a constituent assembly leaves no room for any representative from the king.
Rabindra Mishra: But if you will not make room for the king's representative, how do you expect the palace and the army to accept that?
Prachanda: It is not our goal to get accepted by the palace and the army. Because the palace has been so intent on thwarting the Nepali people's desire for peace and democracy, we see no alternative to creating a major storm of a revolution by the people. That is our understanding.
Rabindra Mishra: You talk about a storm. The parties talked of an impending tsunami. It did not happen. You have been waging your insurgency for a decade, but you have not been able to take over a single district headquarter. So if you look at the ground realities, and if you seriously seek a way out, and if there is a roundtable conference of all the political forces, and if that leads to an interim government, will that have a representative of the king or not?
Prachanda: We are confident now the storm of a revolution will come because ever since the royal palace massacre we have been trying to create a joint front with the parties. Now that that has materialized, the storm is on its way. That revolution will give birth to the interim government. That government will take the country to a constituent assembly.
Rabindra Mishra: Who will be the head of state when that interim government is formed?
Prachanda: The question of head of state and prime minister can be settled after a trust is generated between all parties after a successful revolution and when it is time to form the interim government.
Rabindra Mishra: If that be the case, why has that not been made clear in the 12 point agreement?
Prachanda: That is implied. The seven parties are still for House revival. They are not in any mood to get rid of that right now. We feel as we keep talking and interacting, we will all come around a common slogan down the line.
Rabindra Mishra: I see a lot of confusion here. Both the parties and you have been vocally critical of the king, but the agreement does not even mention the word republic. But then during interviews you all go after the king again. You talk tall about a republic. So instead of being in a strategic offensive, are you instead in the phase of a strategic deception?
Prachanda: Absolutely not. We have agreed on what we have agreed on. There is no attempt to hide or mislead.
Rabindra Mishra: So elections to a constituent assembly take place only after the monarchy has been abolished?
Prachanda: And why would that be? Why can't there be elections to a constituent assembly? It is absolutely possible. When the people's movement forges ahead, when there is a strong understanding between all political parties, then the revolution leads to an interim government that leads to a constituent assembly.
Rabindra Mishra: But according to you the monarchy has to end before the interim government can be formed. Is that not so?
Prachanda: The first emphasis of the 12 point agreement is to throw the ball into the king's court. It is for the king and the monarchists to now come forth saying how far they are willing to go to solve the national crisis. It is now their turn.
Rabindra Mishra: That is what I have been trying to figure out all along. If they are willing to seek a way out, if they are willing to soften their stance, are you also willing to soften your stance to seek common ground?
Prachanda: (A little agitated) I also said that much earlier, that question is highly theoretical at this stage. After that comes, what to do, that we can only decide later after studying the developments. The main issue right now is to create a movement to counter the king's autocracy. This is not a time to seek any understanding with the king.
Rabindra Mishra: No, it is still not clear. What is not clear is you yourself have suggested that the monarchy is abolished, and then the parties and you get together and a trustworthy person is made head of state. If that is the precondition for a constituent assembly, then an abolition of the monarchy is the precondition to a constituent assembly. Is that not the case according to you?
Prachanda: That sure is our goal. But we have also said all along that if all the forces in the country are willing to honestly go to a constituent assembly, then it is possible for all forces to go there together.
Rabindra Mishra: This is the clarity I was seeking. So if the king were to now come forth for a constituent assembly then it would be possible to go to a constituent assembly while the king is still around, no problem, right?
Prachanda: That is something for the king and the monarchists to make clear.
Rabindra Mishra: So if they were to clearly come forth for such an assembly, then it is not problematic that the monarchy is still around while the country goes for a constituent assembly, right?
Prachanda: If they can get clear on that, we can give thought to that.
Rabindra Mishra: Looks like you have really softened, haven't you?
Prachanda: What do you call softening? Nepal is in a crisis, and the people want peace and democracy. Our flexibility is for the people. That sure is.
Rabindra Mishra: So you are going to accept the outcome of the constituent assembly, whatever it might be, right?
Prachanda: We said that a long time ago. We have made that very clear in the 12 point agreement. We are committed to accepting the outcome of a constituent assembly that might be the result of free, fair elections. We have made that very clear.
Rabindra Mishra: So if that assembly comes to the conclusion that the monarchy is to be retained, you are going to accept that?
Prachanda: We don't believe the Nepali people will say that. But if that is what they say, we will respect that.
Rabindra Mishra: I see a clash here. On the one hand the monarchy has to be abolished before there can be elections to a constituent assembly. But then if the people want it back, you are going to reestablish that overthrown monarchy?
Prachanda: That is not how it is. If all the forces were to agree to a constituent assembly, all forces will get the opportunity to present themselves to the people. What we are saying is when that happens, we absolutely, totally do not believe the Nepali people will keep the monarchy that has repeatedly attacked their freedom.
Rabindra Mishra: You talked about my theoretical question. Is that not your theoretical wish? But if the people do keep the monarchy despite your wish, will you accept it?
Prachanda: We have said we will respect the people's verdict.
Rabindra Mishra: The clash still is that you want the monarchy abolished before the constituent assembly, but then you will agree to reestablish it if the people say so through the assembly.
Prachanda: That is not the case. The flaw in your logic is that you are not seeing we are willing to accept constituent assembly elections and UN supervision.
Rabindra Mishra: In the 12 point agreement you talk of elections and supervision by the UN or another trustworthy third party. Do you think India will agree to that?
Prachanda: We have not specified any country. We have not intended to specify either.
Rabindra Mishra: What India has been saying is the Nepalis themselves should solve the problems among them. Outsiders can only help. India is against UN involvement. Does that not make it impractical to seek UN involvement?
Prachanda: We don't see any reason why the UN should not be accepted. But if that is a problem, that is why we have left options open for some other trustworthy third party. India, China, Europe, America. We think we need help from all of those powers.
Rabindra Mishra: Have you talked to the Indians about this?
Prachanda: No, we have not had such talks.
Rabindra Mishra: So after elections to a constituent assembly are conducted under such supervision, you are willing to discard your weapons. True?
Prachanda: What we have been saying is after the constituent assembly election results are out, according to those results, the two armies should be integrated, and one unified army has to take shape. We have made clear there is such a peaceful resolution to the problem.
Rabindra Mishra: Let's talk a little about the Indian role in Nepal's politics. For the longest time you have been talking loud about Indian expansionism and American imperialism. But recent developments have shown India is very important also to you as the larger Nepali politics. Many are calling you India's pawn now.
Prachanda: That is absolutely baseless. Nepal's crisis and geopolitical reality lead us to think we need help from India, China and the other world powers. We are clear on that.
Rabindra Mishra: If it be that important, why have you been badmouthing India for the longest time?
Prachanda: There are ideological stands we take. Those are there for sure.
Rabindra Mishra: When you met the Nepali leaders in India recently, were you aided by the Indian intelligence agencies?
Prachanda: We held the politial dialogue through our own initiatives. We did not experience or feel any external help.
Rabindra Mishra: That makes the Indian intelligence agencies look incapable. When all the top Nepali leaders went to Delhi and met you, they had no inkling.
Prachanda: That is not something we can comment on. What is for sure is that after the king's 2/1 misadventure, new interactions have become possible. New fermentations have been taking place. Most parties are talking for democracy. We don't think the government was in a total dark. But we did not experience or feel any involvement or help.
Rabindra Mishra: Your three month long ceasefire is about to expire in a few days. Will you extend it?
Prachanda: We declared our three month long unilateral ceasefire out of respect for the people's desire for peace and democracy. But the royal army has murdered more than 25 of our cadres during this time period. More than 50 have been disappeared. Under such circumstances, it is very difficult for us to extend the ceasefire even if we might want to. But still there is one week left. We are thinking. We are deliberating.
Rabindra Mishra: You have spent 10 years circling the villages. How much longer will you stay that way?
Prachanda: Our central committe met recently. We evaluated. We have decided on a new direction. The class imbalance of power in the villages has changed. The feudal structure in the villages has been smashed. We have been trying to build a new structure. The country is looking for a political outlet. The central committee has decided to move beyond the villages to the urban areas and to the strategic installations.
Rabindra Mishra: What will you do for that?
Prachanda: The 12 point agreement has been the outcome of the new direction sought by the central committee.
Rabindra Mishra: Will there be other attacks?
Prachanda: It is less about attacks. Our major thrust is to take our political moblization to a whole new level.
Rabindra Mishra: All the lives that have been lost during the 10 years, people blame both the state and you. Do you think of yourself as a sinner or a sage?
Prachanda: Look, Rabindraji, this is a huge insurrection. The 237 year old feudal structure has been revolted against. This has been for justice. Everything has not happened the way we have wanted. This is not about sinner or sage. Human society develops through such revolts. Hundreds of thousands have been sacrificed in other circumstances. This can not be measured emotionally, it has to be measured scientifically, factually.
Rabindra Mishra: That was Prachanda.
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