There is a raging debate going on at SEBS Online on the issue of self-censorship. I quote here excerpts from a thread that is now accessible only to SEBS members. These are only a few of the many postings.
"Now that gyanendra has taken the powers, we can do nothing but stare helplessly at the poor country. Is it? May be Nepal is waiting for the ultimate bloodshed before the new day begins when the monarchy is dumped to the black pages in the history of Nepal."
"I see an emergence of a republic Nepal, may be not right now but within few years."
"rocking! There may be no other country in the world with this much political intrigue. Maybe the war will be decisive now... "
"I personally support what King Gyanendra did wholeheartedly. It’s not because I support what he stands for but because it is the only logical way out of the current crisis. It has to be realized at the onset that the Maoists are a bigger threat to the nation than are the right-wingers. And as such a common front consisting of both the King and the political leaders would have been the best way to counter the threat of the Maoists. But of course the political leaders would never work under the king even though it was the best way out of the crisis or even though they knew that it was the king who had the guns. And in an armed conflict it is the person who has the guns is all powerful. The political parties had their chance to purge the armed forces and make it pro-democracy but they were just too weak to go for that. And it is no surprise that the armed forces, essentially still an aristocratic institution, has a deep mistrust and disdain towards the political parties. Of course one cannot expect them to submit to the political parties when there is a better option available which suits their interests better, isn’t it? You cannot expect politics to run on the principles of morality after all. Thus, as the Maoist threat cannot be ended without military mobilization of some sorts, it is only King Gyanendra who has the power to solve the problem. He may not be the best of the persons, but best of the worst he definitely is.
Though the move was least surprising, it is bound to result in a lot of surprises and uncertainties in the future. The fate of our nation today depends very much on how King Gyanendra decides to solve the problem and also upon his skills as a political leader. But we can at least be sure that he will do the best he can to get the Maoists out of the scene as he himself is fighting to save his skin. Though he appears to be the one who knows what he is doing (and I seriously hope that he does), it is to be seen whether his actions will result in better days or just the traditional stalemate.
As for the political parties, I think that they rather stop monkeying around at least for a while as it will only make the job of solving the Maoist threat harder and probably also longer. There is no point fighting against a brawny brother for the house when the enemy is at the gates.
Well what after the Maoist problem is solved (if it ever is)? Well in that case I think the king is going to be the champion of the masses and there is very little chance that he will actually leave the political hot seat to make way for a democratic government. I’m sure there will be a power struggle then as well. But at least the Maoists will have been out of the scenario by then and it makes much more sense to be fighting for power then rather than today.
Well what if the Maoist problem is not solved for a long time? I do not think there’s anyone who doesn’t know the answer: RIP Nepal.
Well as the cards have already been dealt, all we can do for now is hope that the king plays the game well."
"This was waiting to happen and, I believe, and the parliamentarians are most to blame who could not unite against viciousness of maoists. Average people prefer system we had. But given the fact that the politicians were playing selfish brats while innocents were being butchered, this is probably an option for Nepalese to wait and see."
"no political party leader of Nepal has vision. so, i guess the death of 10000 nepalese won't go in vain at least. either aaar or paar now instead of dilemma. Maoists always told parties that constitution has faults. and King can do this someday. now, all can see what maoists were talking about. Foolish leaders of our country, foolish. Now, i worry the about the power of feudals, bhardars, nothing others.
my post few weeks ago--
ya, this is all truth and truth, nothing more. if you want change, you can't go our political parties' way "wait and wait for the change". I wish for every success for the maoists as soon as possible before other thousands make their way to heaven. If maoists hadn't begun this fight, no political leader and civil cosiety would have been so conscious as of today about the faults in constitution, about the king's power etc. At least, now there is a sense of fear for the corrupt leaders, feudals.
If maoist hadn't begun all this, Nepal wouldn't have come to this phase, this is i guess the phase of transition for the new future. To make it better or worse depends upon all political forces, durbar and maoists. Who would have thought Nepali congress and few others shall have to come to road today? A lose for the maoist from now on is a lose for all nepalese so i guess everyone should win now because the life of 10000 nepalese must not go useless if the change do not come. A win for everyone means a new developmental change in the constitution and consciousness of all the leaders. So, this was being initiated by maoist. All this bold open democratic debate on constitutional assembly, limitation of king's power in today's world, possibility of republic( what about Paras?), decentralisation of development for rural nepal etc etc etc have only been possible due to the reason of maoist, otherwise before them, no political parties were concerned about this, busy in taking money under table, misusing foreign aid."
"our country has been with monarchy for ages and u guys want it thrown away.... what a shame on ya ppl.... no wonder what the king is upto right now..... but what i can assure you is good days are heading our way. When King Gyanendra sacked several ministers and made some reforms in the country couple of year back then people said jindabad, but now when he is himself having difficulties making some decision.. i wonder how ppl be so selfish not supporting the king. Why doesnt anyone understand he is our king..... how can he do anything that would let his country down.... i have a word for some sucker......**** THE MAOIST. our country can never stand without the KING..
LONG LIVE NEPAL AND ITS MONARCHY.. And now comming back to paras dai... why do we forget he is a product of BNKS..... dont worry about him..... times they are changing Cheers.."
"my concern is, Ok Nepal was not in proper track and nepali politicos were not able to do so. But it is we nepali who will decide and work hard to change our society. if king likes to do that then he should form a political party and come to the open ground. he is just like some Afgan warlords who with the power of his chamcha army doing all this. shame on Royal Nepal Army....... we should disband this army and have autonomous security apparatus in all 5 development regions in federal configuration and no control of Kathmandu collectively to all these five security apparatus........ we need REPUBLIC OF NEPAL NOW"
"No we dont need Republic. We need to wipe out the maoists, if not atleast have the election but keep those corrupt leaders (Girija, makune, govinde, wagle) into prison."
"what Maoists are also Nepali. they have voiced their political thoughts. if maoists are wrong for using guns, then king is also wrong for using state guns...... neither of them could be justified...... so choosing enemy one at a time....... monarchy has ruled nepal for past 200 years either directly or under rana (ranas joined royal forces after 1953 so effectively making rana rule also royal rule because of their matrimonial relation, and ranas rose to power not due to weakness of political powers but weakness of monarchy) and they have never ever been supportive to the cause of common nepali...... thus they are first enemy....... we disagree with the maoists philosophy that is why we don't want them to come to power.... that is struggle between nepali........ if the king wants champion his political agenda then he should form a political party, denounce his royal previllage and come to the street as others.......... he may choose maoists way by using guns, it is upto him........ our first enemy in development of nepal is royals....... this does not mean that the political leaders are good, but we can change them........ in nepal's history a killer has been a king........ say if even Dipendra killed Birendra and other royals, he was king for two days though in coma........ how can a killer be the head of the state, and the killing was not a political........ do we need such system....... thus monarchy is the first obtacle for development of nepal......... WE NEED REPUBLIC"
"No phone line No internet no media. these are the basic necessities for people to survive in todays world. Even the coup in Pakistan they did not do this. This is completely against human rights. As a responsible and well educated citizen of nepal I strongly believe that Kings actions is completely wrong and against human rights.
The Nepalese public is no longer like 2017 when King Mahendra took over power. I think this is the start of a new revolution in Nepal. It will be a lot more violent and more bloodshed than in 2045 but I am confident that the change will be for good.
I think this is a good sign of hopes and changes in the country. We should learn to accept changes and we do not need people to rule us who take away our freedom and human rights."
"They way things were going in Nepal, something drastic HAD to happen. But what happened, as many people suspected, is the wrong thing to happen. But it was the most logical thing to happen given the situation. Its a step back for the Nepali people in the long run.
Someone said it right, even if King G is Ok, those around him whom commom people have to deal with, will be the most corrupt, like they always were. The political parties were the by-product of that corrupt group. The Rana and Shah's who run the country does not give a damn about the people. They have enjoyed power and suppressing people for years. And there are chumchas who like to be suppressed and under the umbrella of these people. This royal move is NOT going to change THAT habit, even is the move solves the Maoist problem."
"No, Prachanda is trying to capitalize in the situation. This is the time the political parities can back him up. If that happens, we have a true revolution in our hands. And knowing the parties, I am sure they are analyzing what is the best move. I won't be surprised if some parties join the Maoists.
If the parties stay separate, then we will have more years of bloodshed and rule by the King G."
"it seems ironic that comrade prachanda should talk about history's ghosts while advocating a failed ideology himself."
"We especially appeal the entire jawans and officers working under the so-called Royal Army to defy the so-called royal proclamation, which has come in the gesture of foreign reaction against the country and people, revolt from there and implicate unitedly with the People’s Liberation Army in the great task of protecting own parents, brothers and sisters. PRACHANDA what the F***..this guy is appealing the army to protect their parents, brothers and sisters..what does he mean? join him otherwise Gyanendra will kill their parents or if you don join him he will kill them? It seems he still does not realize that he has played the biggest role to take the country to this situation. Why was he born in Nepal???"
"I have been reading Prachanda's press release for the past few years and I have many reasons to belive that they have changed in the course of years.
Before they used to be more targeted towards having a communist dictatorship in the country. Now they have realized that like any other places in the world hard core communism will not survive any other parts of the world. I feel that they are more geared towards having a socialist republic and support multi - party democracy. This is a good sign for the country and I see some lights if the political parties and maoists come together and work towards democracy...and this is very very possible and the only hope to free the country off slavery."
"what about india? Delhi's support is considered critical for the king in the days to come.
But not many believe he will get it.
What if India shuts down the trade routes..no sugar, no gas, no salt, nothing to eat..
what's going on? i am scared thinking about the situation in Nepal."
"Do you know how many lives the shah dynasty has taken over the years so that they can rule for ever?"
"yes so it should be the political parties and people that should bown down infront of the king always right.. not people unite against people against autocracy..
i am a believe that none can rule anyone by birth.."
"F*&# you Prachannda, What a shameless brute! He thinks that solution to every problem lies either in killing people or shutting down the country. Who is he trying to help here? The common people who, if do not go to work everyday, would not get the money to eat their food, or the royalists who want the exact thing to happen?
“The great Nepalese people..” Are you kidding me? Did you ever think of those great Nepalese people when killing an 80 year old man? Did you ever think of those great Nepalese people when kidnapping 500 students and teachers from a school?
You have killed so many people, ruined so many families, destroyed so many things that by the time you think you will rest your case and come out of your fkn people’s war, you will be shot. I can guarantee that."
"Why do people keep talking about revolution like it'll be anything different from what is happening today?
What is happening today is the precise reason why Gyanendra doesn't fear a revolution.
He has seen regular protests and violence on the streets and has seen the parties' strengths and weaknesses. The army is figting the Maoists and in this he has seen the extent of an armed conflict. He has also realized that we can be in an armed conflict for years and years.
We've been having quasi-revolution style politics for the past few years and Gyanendra has studied it well. The parties only gave him more reason to act.
So, the so called coming revolution will be no different that the civil war/disorder we're already in. Gyanendra is comfortable with the idea and thus he acted."
"what, just a view, if political parties should not make working alliance with maoists, then should they make with king. i think fight to finish and for that reason which ever alliance is good go ahead. king has made alliance with RNA, so what harm for maoists to have their fighters. same way...... poor nepal. but now nepal is republic in 3 years as king G has asked for the time. paras does not have credibility so he can not correct the move of G if G has to give away the thrown, so nepal will be republic for sure."
"how can this ass give a stmt like that? nepal ma janmeko sab bhanda thulo kaput tyei ho..aajha muji grt nepali ppl bhanera bhanna sakne kasto laaj nabhako ko raicha..."
"please don't think that what you think is right and others are wrong. If you are a democratic person, you must hear what others have to say. Instead of saying anything you like here, just express your opinion please. and you are not the only nepali here."
"F***ing opportunist Gaddar Prachanda seems not to be in Nepal itself now... or how could he post this press release?? Jo chor uskai thulo sor.. Prachanda Kutta. This all happened because him...because of his atrocity.. F*** U Prachanda. You are the only responsible for this to happen. If you do not abandon gun Nepal has worse situation to come.
I can see good solution to the present situation by throwing away the maoists first and only the King.. we cant fight with two enemies at a time."
"i have a few questions about gyane's move in nepal yesterday
1) could he have something like this without getting somekind of approval from india and the US, i donn think gyane is that stupid to do something this big without looking into the future and its consequences
2) nn wat about the maoists? would gyane not have thought about the retaliation he could face from the maoists?
3) does the RNA really trust ghane too?
i feel that gyane must have made some kind of deal with india at least cause this move is simply too big to carry out without the indian government giving it a go ahead. to this viewpoint some people might say that who is india to say anything about the situation in nepal but we have the facts in front of us. india does have some control over things in nepal.
along with that, gyane would not have done this without knowing that the maoists are not in the position to stop him or at least make him look foolish in front of the world community. i also do suspect some kind of fishy link between these who opposite streams!!!
nn the RNA, i donn know what to say about them .. its nearly owned by the kind so they would most probably support gyane's move
i want to hear what other think too. this is a big change for the country .. i only hope that it brings something positive"
"Well, this will be one of those days which will be very important in the pages of Nepal's history. I don’t know if it’s a good move, or if it’s a bad move. I don’t know if we're going forward, or backward. BUT- we are moving from this stagnation that we've had for some years.
Before discussing more on the subject, I want to say that Sher Bahadur Deuba is the most useless Prime Minister. (Girija was the worst PM, if you get the difference). Whenever he is PM, something dramatic happens, and he isnt able to do anything. In his term, the Maoist war began. In his term, he gets booted out for the constitution to be attacked. In his term, he gets booted out for military rule. He is the Pajero PM and the Jumbo Cabinet PM. Not unlike Girija, he too does anything to stay in the PM's chair, getting the help of the most notorious people like Khum Bahadur, Chiranjive Wagle etc. He has no morals. And his last administration was useless and hopeless. What did he manage to do? NOTHING. Just to stay in power, he would do anything the King says. He is not his own man. Just another Girija protégé attracted to the PM's chair. He is useless. At least Girija would defy the King or anyone, no matter how corrupt he is- but Deuba is a yes man, doing anything to cling to that chair.
As for the latest move. Indeed a dramatic move by the King. A bold move- yes. A good move? I wouldn’t rejoice as I did on October 4th. We've seen clearly the game he plays and the objective of that Game. His 2 moves that I denounce the most is the 7 fold increase in the Royal Budget and the Rolls Royce Incident. And also the 90,000 pound for Helen Shah's treatment. These were selfish moves, for the benefit of himself, not Nepalis. And they were open moves for everyone to see, showing us where his stand is. The 7 fold increase was absolutely unnecessary. Infact, if he had been a King who wanted to win the hearts of the people, he should have decreased the budget 7 fold. Why does the Royal Family need so much money with so many of them dead in the June 1 2001 Massacre. Also, Crown Prince Paras' image is the same. I don’t think the cotorie around the King gave him good advice by doing this.
However, this time,by openly saying that He is going to chair the cabinet, King Gyanendra is showing openly to the world who's leading the government and who's boss of one side of this Civil War. Its going to be Maoists vs the King. As for the political parties, if allowed to be free, they will join the Maoist movement. If King Gyanendra wants to be even bolder, and try to win the war, he should eliminate all the politicians right now. Girija, Makune, Sher Bahadur etc. to save himself being irritated by a nuicanse later on. But I don’t know if the King winning the war will be a good thing. We'll be back in the autocratic Panchayat days, and they werent good days. And that’s a Big IF. The 'war' is going to go on..for some time. And its going to be an all out war. I don’t think there will be any success in negotiations. The Maoists wants a constituent assembly and consequently a republic. The King will never give up the throne, that’s for sure. It’s a head on clash.
Before there was a three way war. Maoist vs Anti Regression forces (Girija and most political parties) vs King. Now it’s a two way clash. It might be King vs Maoists. Or it might be King vs Maoists and parties combined. I think the parties will come to a minimum common agenda with the maoists and fight against the King's forces.
The King is definitely risking his skin this time around, that’s for sure. He's playing a high risk game. King Birendra played it all safe and stayed quiet watching everything from the top,but doing nothing. But King Gyanendra is staking the monarchy to eliminate the Republican forces and to rule directly. But I cant say if the monarchy will be all that good. We've havent seen anything good in the last 2 years. But the post 1990 democracy sucked big time too. Girija made a mess of things, and guess who took advantage? King Gyanendra.
But like I said, at least we're moving. Forward or backward, we'll know in a few years."
"compare time between 1953 and 1990 when monarch's ruled directly and compare time between 1991-2003 when political parties ruled. though girija or such might have clinged to power and they were always for the power, but we had a political system and it was giving some positive results. corruption yes, but that means panches and the monarchs were not corrupt during panchayat period. i say king himself, forget about dhirendra, gyanendra, and kings sisters.
if the system is there where there will be rule of law for the people by the people and of the people, eventually we will have good leaders and system evolving. look in usa, close to 50% think Bush is an idiot, but still the system rules and one has to wait for the election......... thus, kings direct/indirect rule is not acceptable. he will be ruling by his military might, so no one will be accountable except he himself will be ruling by virtue of his decree......... then why the system. you must have seen rejoicing Iraqis, why they were rejoicing is because they thought that they were developing a system after 50 years of tyranny....... we must make our country a republic now, and punish the army generals, too, along with Shahs. French revolution is needed........... i find maoist less of the evil than the direct ruling monarchy with the support of state ARMY.............. both ruling in the names of gun"
"to add a few more things
i think that democracy is the best form of governance for a country and yes, in nepal too.
"?" - u said that the democracy we had was better than panchayat system that mahendra brought about. i agree with u. but what i did not like about the situation (before feb. 1) was that there was no democracy !!! gyane was already behind all the moves and the currupt politicians could do nothing about it. since oct. 4 2002 move by the king, things entered a stale mate. the political parties could do nothing about it and only fought among themselves. i donn say that gyane is a good person and that he has all the tools required to bring the country out of this situation, but he is the only hope we have at the current moment. so lets see what he does. if his motives are not good then there should be a more powerful uprising, strong enough to through the royals out of the palace. i mean wats the use of them staying there if they cannot help the country.
well all these are my viewpoints nn i know a lot of ppl might not agree with me .. i want to know what other ppl think though, so everything i say is open to discussion"
"Each and every thing which leaders of maoists had said and forecasted through articles, everything has gone right, all the incidence and events. G's move is not a democratic move and its only acceptance can be due to the fact that someone has to break the ice. This is Janta's yug, not of feudal dreamers. Those who advocate the continuation of Monarchy, sorry people , it is seriously on the downfall. I guess and hope maoist will be less evil than army as i have felt the tyranny of army at roads and everywhere when there was constitution. Also maoist leaders are janta's son but not gyan dai. Imagine, walking, roaming, working in Nepal now; you must do what army says, now there is not even a single government place to listen anything of yours. So, if you have some links to the feudals, you are lucky or else you can be finished then and there or tortured infinitely. Can this autocratic system can ever be called good? Although people may feel little positive about this step, he is not a good man for sure. I go for the maoist statement instead of going for autocracy of panchas."
"I agree with that idea - at least we are moving.
I would give Gyanendra credit for at least one thing - the guy has had the guts to take on the parties that have frustrated and penalized the whole country.
The nobility of his intentions is surely questionable, but something had to be done....and maybe I'm not too sad to see him do it.
Nepalis are thirsty for some semblance of order.....and if he can give us that, i'd be happy for now.
As for democracy, we should work on that after we have some law and order. Democracy with civil war is no democracy at all!!! "
"I do not see any parties joining the Maoists just because G ousted the present government. The parties who were staging anti-regression demonstrations in the streets were time and again saying that the Deuba and the previous governments were unconstitutional. This took over of G may also look unconstitutional to them. If they only harp about this constitutional and unconstitutional thing, which they have been doing all along, then they are at the same potential. There is no significant change for them.
More importantly, who will go to join the Maoist, a group which has killed their own party activists so brutally. May be some leaders might go, for heaven’s sake to protect the “democracy,” and, I don’t think that amounts a lot. Joining Maoist is not like staging protests in Ratnapark in which you can pay people to come for an hour or two to stage demonstrations. It surely is not fun.
Parties are screwed now, at least for the time being. They deserve it.
I think we need to finish up G too.
We should learn something from Pakistan."
"The leaders are all going to jail....don't you see it. It isn't without reason that he cut all communications and transportation lines......he doesn't want the party people talking to each other or running away from the country.
This is a replication of what Mahendra did. All political leaders will be under house arrest and eventually put in jail if he can find charges against them.......no more protests will be allowed......and the press has been told that it is being censored.
This is a big time takeover."
"I think Maoist should sieze this opportunity and compromise on some of their radical thinking so that political parties support them. Then there is going to be a real revolution, King vs. the People. If the Maoist stand their ground, and the parties stay by themselves, then there is going to be long dragged on war which will not be good for the Country. If we have to choose between the two evils, I am inclined to choose a dumbed-out version of Maoists, than go back to autocratic rule of power hungry family. We have seen what their past is like, we know what their future holds, so why not try out another version of government."
"If the Maoists join with the political parties, how does that become King vs. people???
The people are out of this one way or another.....it's a tiny segment of the ruling class of all factions vs. each other......people are screwed no matter what!"
"This loss of power to the political parties will make them look back at their roots and go to the village-level to reorganize again to fight against the 'unconstitutional' move. Meanwhile maoists will also continue their fight against the monarch. one thing is very clear that though maoist leaders call for unity against monarchy and this move of G it is not possible for the political parties to ally with them. How can the political parties go hand in hand with those who killed their members? How can those hundreds of displaced people trust the maoist? Maoist have done enough to Nepal. aaja Nepal halleko chha kinaki Maos le yaha dhamira pasaidiye, Nepal jaliraheko chha kina ki Moas le Ghar jalaidiye. The situation has now changed from tripolar stalemate to dipolar tug-of-war. Saade ko judhai ma pilsiyeka janta has now chance to end the war when maoists are trying to ally with them. And eventually turn towards G."
"Well, everybody seems to be talking about the SHOCKING development. I am sorry but I fail to see anything shocking at all. The recently dismissed govt was appointed by King G, wasn't it? And if I recall correctly, a deadline had been given to PM D to hold elections. He failed the deadline, and the G has fulfilled his promise. So, basically he has just decided that he has had enough of these middlemen and decided to do it the old fashioned way, who needs them running around the streets when you got more important things to spend your time on. Whatever the result may be, hats off to G though. At least he seems to have the ambition and guts to get off his behind and actually do something. I mean he could have just sat there scratching his rear, raising his allowance and what not and let shit happen elsewhere. But hey, looks like he actually wants to take some risk and a firm stand. Doing this with India completely against it is pretty brave I think. The Maoists had a real chance. With all the people fed up with the politicians and the kingship, they could really have done something had they any sense at all. But no, they proved that they were even above and beyond all the others in oppression. While autocracy does leave a bad feeling in the mouth, I am actually kinda glad that the horrible nauseating slimy socalled leaders are out of the equation."
"During this turmoil situation where the political parties have not only failed in their task but also were one of the major cause of bringing the democratic situation of nepal to this stage and the maoist are the main cause for the bloodshed thats ongoing for couple of years now I pesonally have no other choice then to support the king and his moves. There is a probability that the nation will go into economical and social semi-halt but won't this be a lesser price to pay if the situation will turn in the favour of nepal and her people. After all , the decade of civil war has brought nothing but pain and tears in the eyes of nepalese and Nepal herself have bled in the worst possible way. Let us all hope that the problem can be solved as soon as possible."
"A lot of hypothesizing, and a lot of phenomenology, but the bottom line is that the political forces can never be counted on constructively instrumentalizing democracy in our poor country. I was just waiting for either the King or the Maoists to take over the country, and it seems like lesser of the two evils has usurped power. I think party politicking, and infighting has cost us a good ten-twelve years, not to mention the byproduct Maoist insurgency. I would have always felt pessimistic as long as Girija and his long long list of cronies were in the process of usurping power for their selfish causes. But by preeventing the demagogues from holding onto their kurchis, the King may be able to provide an outlet from this stalemate. We didn't have a single leader willing to rise to the occassion and tackle the greater political divide and fight against irregularities and corruption. So it is time for a dictator to rule the masses, and provide a way out, because stagnation is rotting the Nepali economy, and pilfering the minds of the loyal Nepali people. I am just soo sick and fed up with a "ashakta" democracy, one that just exits in paper, and operated by selfish dimwits who don't realize what is at stake...
Our political leaders need to be held responsible for this mess. Their cowardice, displayed shamefully during the darkest hours of our country, was just pathetic! Look at how many of them acknowledged defeat to the Maoists, voicing strongly their inability to preserve the democratic institution. I mean, these friggin leaders are the people's representives of safekeeping democracy, which mind you, is the result of the sacrifices we made. What a waste of peoples' dreams and ideas. I say, it's good that the King decided that he was fed up with dastards like Girija Babu. I totally agree with Roopesh that it is the political parties that are responsible for this quagmire. They were fighting till their demise..
The first thing we need is normalcy and peace. Forget the economic prosperity, it seemed that the political dog-fighting was suffocating our country. King has taken a huge risk by eliminating the buffer politicians. No risk, No reward! King G has played his cards like a businessman, and by implementing a well-planned and impressive coup, he has proven that he can easily out-maneuver dimwits like Deuba!"
""14. Our decision should leave no room for confusion amongst the security personnel and civil servants in discharge of their duties and responsibilities. Today, it is we Nepalese who must take an initiative to ensure a bright future for Nepal and the Nepalese. An independent press serves as the medium for raising the level of democratic consciousness. It plays a crucial role in the promotion of national interests. We believe that the press will make effective contributions in ensuring that democratic norms and values inspire our way of life as well as governance. We are confident that, with this in mind, all those who have faith in multiparty democracy will discharge their duties from their respective places and the people's aspirations along with the country's requirements will be realised through the shared efforts of all the countrymen." - G
Wow what a commitment to independent press!!!! I don't know if he thinks Nepalese are all dumb. Is this what press freedom means to him????"Press forms a medium for democratic consciousness"????? wow what a great theory he has found. Let us all give a big applause for the new found theory on independent press-no news allowed to be published without being censored or even more, no press as such can exist. That would be even more independent. Good luck!!!!!!Time will proove who is right."
"TO ? >>we should disband this army and have autonomous security apparatus in all 5 development regions in federal configuration and no control of Kathmandu collectively to all these five security apparatus
Well I really liked the idea of disbanding the army as it indeed is the biggest hurdle for the development of democratic practices. Being an aristrocratic institution it does need a lot of reforms. But I would also like to point out that now is not the best of the times for such adventures. No doubt benefit will come out of it later on, but as of now it is better that we support the "tribal warriors" that we have. well as for introducing a republic now, the same applies to it as well. I was never the biggest of fan of KG but then he is not a choice, he is a necessity. Holding the flag for a republic is only going to give more time and strength to the guerillas and as such is best put down for better times."
"As I said before, in the long run, I dont know if it will be good or bad. Everytime Gyanendra makes a move like this, he says it in ways that is filled with good intentions. Maybe he even believes it is for the good of the country. But remember, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
He must not make selfish moves. He must operate in ways that would improve the country, not the Royal Family, and the Shahs and Ranas close to him.
And I say this: I dont know whether he will produce good or bad results, but for him to succeed in whatever he is doing, he must make sure he breaks the alliance between the political parties and the Maoists. This is for the best. WHy? For those who support the King, if the political parties and maoists join forces, it will be a nuicanse to the King. FOr those who do not support the King, if the Maoists and the Political parties combine, and if the King is ousted; after that what? These political parties and maoists will start quarelling over each other, killing each other and make the country go down as to who will be the President and India will come with all good intentions and we will be going "kya hai bhaiya" a few years after that.
It was the Political parties that messed things up after 1990. THERE IS NO ONE ELSE TO BLAME. Not the King. You cant say he didnt let the politicians do what they wanted. King Birendra silently watched it all. It wasnt the Maoists. For 6 years, we had no Maoist problem, and yet the musical chairs for PM was going on, and when the Maoist movement first started, it was so small that no one took notice-Deuba didnt even bother to reply Baburam's letter and went to India instead. I have been very critical of Girija Koirala. he is the mother of the failure of democracy. But the communist party was terrible. In opposition, the UML were the ones who started Chakka Jam, Nepal Bandh and what not-adding new vocabulary to the Nepali Dictionary. (Remember Headmaster Tom Thomas going "Chaak ko Jam" during monday assembly). The UML as opposition did nothing but OPPOSE. Even when the Govt was introducing something for the good of the country. Remember when UML and others wouldnt let parliament function and they didnt attend the Parliamentary Session, yet they took the fat stipend and put it in their pockets, the bastards.
I dont care what the turnout of this move will be. But I strongly suggest that the politicians who spoilt it for US NEPALIS be arrested, and even executed. They are NO GOOD. Not for anyone. If the King wants to function without any nuisance, I think he should execute Girija, Makune, Khum Bahadur, Chiranjivi, GOVINDA RAJ JOSHI, Girija's daughter Sujata, Sher Bahadur, and a few more. They are criminals. Without a doubt. They spoilt democracy in Nepal. They are responsible for what is happenning in Nepal today. And what is happenning in NEpal today is NOT GOOD. When Birendra was King, Monarchy played a great role. The monarchy was the only one that followed the constitution. We dont need any trial etc. We know they're guilty. So many students died for 2046 Movement-just so that these MFs can loot and get fat? Even if Nepal is to have a democracy, we can have it without these dirty buggers. The King should take away all their money and put it back in the National Treasury. And I hope he is wise enough not to put it in his own pocket.
Even after the King took power- look at those fucking politicians. They couldnt agree on what to do because each of them wanted to be Prime Minister. Madhav Nepal broke away from the anti regression alliance because Girija wouldnt support his candidacy for PM. And later UML causing trouble for Deuba's government and trying to bring it down. They never learnt their lessons, did they? Bastards.
And the Maoists? I have one simple question out of many. Why kill a 78 year old teacher so gruesomely? JUST ONE QUETION, out of many such.
As for what the King said, let me just highlight the truth in his words "Tussle for power, abuse of authority on gaining power and unhealthy competition in fulfilling personal and communal interests at the expense of the nation..."
"Whereas all democratic forces should have adopted an unified approach against terrorism, leaders instead continued their tussle for power, encouraging simple political workers to vandalise public utilities in the name of politics..."
"Parliament witnessed many aberrations in the name of retaining and ousting governments. Not a single House of Representatives was allowed to complete its tenure...."
"In order to conduct the general elections in an environment of peace and security, opportunities were given to leaders of various political parties to constitute the Council of Ministers, with executive power. But the situation did not improve. National politics was plagued by not uniting in running the government but opposing it on being ousted from it...."
"Multiparty democrats could not sincerely unite, with national interest as the focal point..."
"Terrorising the innocent population, extorting money through intimidation, brutally murdering those who dissent, kidnapping students and perpetrating atrocities against teachers, making false promises to simple people and destroying development projects aimed at the people's welfare...."
" Corruption, which has been continuously spreading its tentacles, has not only cast a shadow over politics and administration, but has also obstructed the nation's march towards progress. Corruption has struck at the very core of our society..."
King Gyanendra is playing a high stakes game. If he has the interest of Nepal, he will win. Because it is not the Maoist who are the strong force; not the politicians; and not the Monarchy and Army. It is the People. If he uses this opportunity for the people, they will support him. It is the people that is the strongest force."
"Its time UN Peace Keeping forces be deployed in Nepal. They should have been deployed a long time ago. The bloodshed and killings are only going to escalate. However, it is not in India's best interest to allow peace keeping force in Nepal because of Kashmir issue as this can spill over to Kashmir. What India doesn't realize that maoist problem in Nepal is also a problem to them. The Naxalities in North East India and other Indian guerrillas have already strengthened their base in India. A year or two down the road, who knows, India might send troops to Nepal to combat maoists. For Nepal, its better if we have UN peace keeping forces than Indian forces or no forces at all."
"This Move, of course is historic move, like all the "deliberate" actions taken by G. And we, like the pupil in the "Animal Farm" have been silently watching the steps of the Players, like we have been doing since the inception of Democracy. I think, this is also a continuation to the further deteriorating Nepal. We guys are lucky enough to get such a witty insights from all the ones who have posted their views in this thread. Every time G has announced on the state media, he has been a little more "Filmi" trying to rather divert people's concentration away from him and to always discredit the multi praty democratic system in the nation. However, it tok America many centuries to reach this stage where also people find some nooks for criticism. It was, I think,a hasty move from G. The leaders are the product of circumstances. There are differnet ways to punish the national curses ( those shitty politicians), it does not mean that they be ounished at the cost of nation's democracy. This move, however is a move that sounds as a wise-man's decision. His statement sounds as if he had no other choices besides this. In retrospect to the different civil wars going on in the other parts of the world, ours look a bit different! The power holders here are attacking the sentiments of people and trying to proven themselves as the saviors. The addressed speech shouldnot count on the petty things like how little children are deprived of resources; almost all of his speeches have reprimanded the political parties' ineffectiveness. This factor cannot be generalized for all the politicians. Still today, we have somewhat many highly spirited patriots that have survived with a very less resources. However, like Rupesh Dai has mentioned, Our nation is in motion now; we will experience a momentum within a few years time, which is what the majority desperately wants. G has at least tried to do something substantial rather than limiting himself behind the curtain and using his remote. So frieds, lets hope this movement will not be just another continuation G's other so called "decisive" moves. Nepal is already torn apart...."
"From today onward, since Nepal is not a democratic country, Organisation like SEBS won't be able to move in a democratic manner. HEll, people like radhakrishna mailnali who betrayed his own party to be king's loyalist, how can these people work for nepalese. This was what i was worrying for. Instead king could have taken some renowned figure. KIng seems not upto good. I worry for the day when some loyalist sees the democratic forums here and complains to the loyalist. I guess, we are bound under autocracy, this is not funny. You won't be able to move by bowing up your head in kathmandu from now on, if you are a supporter of democracy. No maulik adhikars are left now. Look at the people whom he has elected, they are the worst people of history who suppported autocracy for democracy. I hope this posting is at least not censored."
"I think king deserves a chance to prove himself. sansadwaadis have miserably failed to deliver. In civil wars, one man leadership and discipline is important. Maoists have always taken advantage of fractiousness among sansad waadis and continued the butchery. Now that king is in control, army and police will have good motivation and sense of direction. This will help pressure maoists into talks and hence the peace. The king still says he has abided by the constitution and multiparty system. He also knows that he can have the reigns for ages. Should he respect humanrights, maybe three years for King G is not a bad gamble for Nepalese to achieve peace."
"IF what you say is true, then Gyanendra is one hell of a mastermind. And Girija is right about Grand Designs. But you know what? If all you say is true (which isnt, ofcourse), I'd rather have a mastermind clever person rule over me, than fools like Girija and SHER BAHADUR DEUBA. Better to have a wise man for an enemy than a fool for a friend."
"a wise man foresees the future, as a king, G is foolish, very nicely plotting his downfall. a wise person tries to promote his existence, not the downfall. King is under constitution, he can't take law in hands, but see the fault in the faulty constitution, he has done it. His persons in ministers are very suspicious figures, all haertly devoted to feudalism. This marks the beginning of a bad plot. Let's see ahead. I was always confused about the realtion between maoist and king, but with their strong opposite statement about king's move, even that has gone. Don't forget someone is a smuggler of statues by history. there are people from janta who have shown that they can lead, starting with nothing. "
"the fundamentals of nation building is allowing its people to exercise the decision making process. neither panchayat, nor the 12 years of multiparty democracy could furnish this to the degree where people felt that they were the decision makers for the stakes they have for their future. panchayat was no way in this, however, 12 years of multiparty democractic governance moved a bit towards this due the mere compulsion which could not be avoided. now king G, giving rosy reason to asurp the power by blaming the political parties, taking helm of power to do good of the country. what an irony...... should we destroy the house because we have cockroaches, or we use bug buster...... in no pretext should the institutions and fundamentals of for the people by the people and of the people be held captive of any rulers. i am baffeled by the sheer review of many of the participants here blaming political parties. political parties are an institution, and we should allow it to grow. i am not advocating for NC or UML or such..... if the leaders are not good, people will change them. time will bring new parties or reform the existing parties because politics and form of governance is dynamic activity which will not get stagnated because of a leader, or king or political parties....... in addition, why we are so much ignorant of the history of nepal....... though political parties might have performed miserably in past 15 years, but the development of such system has always been impended by monarchy......
1,why king Tribhuvan had to do Delhi agreement to marginalize revolting NC against Ranas
2. Even after the proclamation that the country would be ruled by the new constitution drafted by to be elected constituent assembly member, King Tribhuvan never went for constituent assembly election, WHY?
3. Instead of constituent assembly election and drafting of constitution why King Mahendra promulgated a constitution with limited democracy and called for election of the parliament in 1959?
4. Even after the election why King Mahendra had to dissolve the parliament and arrest the leaders in 1960?
5. For Rupesh and others claiming King Birendra was sincere, why King Birendra did not reform Panchayat and incorporated some of the fundamentals of multiparty system after 1979 referendum, though he had proclaimed Reformed Panchayat?
Taking these into accounts, let us discuss, if Nepal would have been practicing multiparty system since 1953 under the costitution drafted by elected constituent assembly members, we would have been ivolved into more functioning democracy now (possibility, and equally we might not have also but we could not experiment).
There were no Maoists or any other political forces disturbing in 1953, except for the Ranas who were disenchanted.
In 1959-60, Gurkha Dal might have been creating some problem but that was not that severe to dissolve the parliament.
In 1979 and after that there was no such disturbance that king had reason not to reform the panchayat.......
And rise of Jung Bdr. Rana in 1854 was not due to the political parties but weakness of Monarchy and Royal coterie, are we Nepali to blame?
So who is to blame, monarchy or Nepali or political parties.
finally Maoists problem is the not the manifestation of malfunctioning governance of 1990s, but long traditional feudalism engraved in Nepali society was the root cause and open society and weak governance of 1990 allowed it to florish in log phase..... Are the political parties the root cause of feudalism or Shahs and Ranas and their Birtawalas.......... And look at the history of Royal Nepal Army, an institution of inherent feudalism, and to preserve this and benefit from state coffer has always been loyal to Shahs and Ranas. They were loyal to Ranas till mid 1950s........ Where did Nepali people stand in the configuration of RNA, are they suppose to safe guard interest of reining monarch or the nation and its people......... what you see is long track record of gross human rights violation against Nepali and unclinching support to either Ranas for a century or Shahs from mid 1900.
So in conclusion, King G does not have any rights to execrcise executive power and article 27(3) of the constitution of Nepal "27. His Majesty: (3) His Majesty is to preserve[4] and protect this Constitution by keeping in view the best interests and welfare of the people of Nepal. " does not allow him to exercise the executive power, and instead of protecting the constitution he has grossly violated it, thus has to be punished and Nepal should be a republic now onwards."
"Mahendra gave away northern parts of himalaya and northern base of Sagarmatha (Mt. Everest) after his 1960 coup, so it is not a suprise to see this........... can nepal live in international norms of refugee when it is not living in the norms of ruling.............."
"Since when is corruption a crime and killing people not a crime? I have nuthing to say to u if u truly believe gyane is not the mafia don of nepal and has done all saintly activities. But come on, you want the leaders to be executed in a country that does not have capital punishment, and that too by the hands of ek number ko goonda?? Furthermore, its not just about killing few heads. You think the bureaucracy, ever-smoothly operating since the panchayat days, do not practice corruptions? so u gonna kill all the sachibs-upasachibs, hakims badahakims n all? I mostly like reading your posts but be realistic and see pros n cons regarding all sides."
"It's interesting that in the SEBSonline poll, over half the people say that what Gyanendra did was a Good move!
I always thought we had a bunch of left wing radicals on this site......maybe I was wrong!!!!"
"I posted no opinion because I have no idea how to judge this action."
"I feel real good, I think its the same with lots of people waiting for this to happen.
What me and fellow Nepali like me are hoping is that King G makes this big move and either fails really miserably and runs away from the country or builds the country out of it.
But the biggest hurdle for him seems to be :
1. India is not supporting him-- this could lead to a series of serious problems. Manmohan Singh not attending SAARC due to King G is even a bigger blow for him. India could play a real dirty game like that of the 90s. And the initial supporters of King G's coup might get agitated.
2. Maoist- They have clearly mentioned that they are NOT ready to talk to King G, although they had earlier said that they wanted to talk to the Master, ie the King, and not the slaves, ie the Deuba government.
3. Other International support, International support is very important for Nepal, who will provide the Aid money which is an integral part of our National budget.
But sometimes I think King G taking over and making it might just be a wishful thinking."
"i suggest girija to go for tirtha yatra and indulge himself in dharma-karma, for the good of himself as well as all of us."
""If the crisis deepens further and puts India’s own security at risk, it might be tempted to borrow George Bush’s doctrine of pre-emptive invasion."
While reading the many articles in the western newspaper and magazines (some of which i frequently read and take it as my bible), I feel saddened by the exaggerations and the one sided arguments.
The quote above is unnecessary if not ludicrous. And this was quoted in the Economist.
Another factor that i find mentioned in many of the journals is the whipping up of pro-republic fervor that may not really be the case.
For example, it is frequently stated that the move was actually not favored by most nepalese, whereas it is obvious that most ppl in our website and even as Onta reminded us above are either see this as favorable for the nation or are relcutantly willing to live with it (because there is a greater threat to deal with).
Nevertheless, i find the debate (that we are having here) very healthy.
Some people often talk about how our nation reached this state and blame either the politicians or the king, i would like to borrow a quote from Burke to remind them that "all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
We - you and me - have played a big role in not doing enough to prevent Nepal from falling into this state. Let's acknowledge that first before blaming anyone else!"
""If the crisis deepens further and puts India’s own security at risk, it might be tempted to borrow George Bush’s doctrine of pre-emptive invasion."
Ya, true. I also read this in economist and I was really annoyed at this. Do these people think Nepal as another Afganistan or what???? We would never allow foreign military interference and I hope these people will understand this.
And, invasion by India???If India thinks it as a threat , I think it should be answered well. No doubt, Gyanendra let many supporters of Nepal down including India. Though India has been helping Nepal in many fronts, we cannot forget the hard -to- notice benefits it is getting from Nepal. It has always looked at us with its treacherous eyes and now here it is with another episode."
"I frankly do not see anything wrong with the Indians. They are as good as a person could possibly ever be(and I have a very low view of people). Thats what I personally think. The main problem is with us. We don't even have the power to feed ourselves let alone defend, what do u expect from a person who virtually feeds us? Yes I do agree that what India is doing is not morally right at all(if it were in my power I would change that country into a lifeless desert), but the main problem is with us and not them. Had we been more developed had we been more powerful, who would dare infringe on our sovereignty? Thus rather than playing the blame game, i think it is better to keep quiet and look inside ourselves and see where we stand. A little bit of introspection will certainly show that Nepal is a beggar(no matter what we like to think) and India is the one who feeds her, and as a beggar we do not have a right to shout at her even if she gives us a kick or two. No doubt we have pride(a rather unfounded one I would say) but we do not have the luxury to express it. Rather than wasting our energy shouting at her, I think it is much more better if we direct that rage towards a more meaningful purpose, one of strengthening our nation. Until we are ready to use our fists it is better to keep our mouths shut. I really look forward to the day when we as a nation will be able to trade blow for blow. Thus if one wants respect one should learn to earn it and not beg for it by screaming. Well as for the pre-emtive strike from India, we are safe as yet not because we can actually fight back but because India as yet cannot justify it's action internationally and also because we have another neighbour to the north and India knows just too well not to mess with her.(KG certainly has some sort of understanding with China as the closure of the Tibetan Refugee Welfare Office points to. This indeed is a repeat of Mahendra's doctrine: Capitalize on the mutual fear of the two neighbours to have a free hand inside the country)"
"Let love and not hate be thy guide
Our country and also this forum seem to be divided into two blocks. The first one supports what the King did and the second one does not.
In spite of the differences there is a common trait in all of us: we all hate the monarchy, we all hate the monarchy and we all hate the political parties. There is not a single thing in them that can be likened to a true statesman.
The record of the monarchy and the monarch is indeed in no way superior to that of the political parties or the Maoists (as has been chronicled by “?” in much detail). They are all essentially power hungry wolves who have trampled over the wishes of the people to further their own ambitions. And the biggest of the tragedy for our country today is that these are the only people we can choose from. So whom do we choose and what is the criterion for such a choice? As for the person we choose, I would like to remain silent on that point for a while but the criterion for the choice is I hope clear to all: It shall be the love of our nation.
Now let’s assume that the Maoists come to power (with or without the political forces of today…I think it doesn’t make sense anyway). That will in my view be the biggest tragedy for this nation. Even if their means to power which at best can be likened to that of terrorists and criminals were to be forgiven, their entire ideology is flawed. An extremist Communist state will be a big blunder not just domestically but also internationally. Its result at best is going to be a cut off of foreign aid and diplomatic relation and at worst a direct military intervention. Thus, in my view the Maoists are the biggest threat to our nation today simple because their whole ideology behind the rebellion is unsuitable for Nepal.
As for the political parties, in spite of their powerlessness, they are undoubtedly the most appropriate ideological force for Nepal. The system that they want to fight for will certainly bring prosperity in the long run but the fat is that they are utterly incapable today for putting up such a fight. They never had the army’s support and now they are viewed with skepticism by the masses as well. Has they realized earlier that to actually rule a country you need to have the army under your control, they would have never been hit by this crisis. But they were all happy with nominal political power without ever realizing that the source to enforce that power lay in someone else’s territory. Such and many other blunders (a lot have been said on the others I guess) have reduced this once mighty force to a powerless whiny dog today. Even now I would not have hesitated to give my support to them (Incidentally I am also disagreeing with Roopesh dai when he was so hard on the politicians. I think he did not mean it literally) had it just been the case of King Vs. Them. But the fact is that there is a third actor involved and that these political parties do not have the support base to fight them. And to wish that the support base be handed over to them is nothing more than just wishful thinking (of course if you don’t rule out foreign military intervention which in addition to being counterproductive is far-fetched, and the little chance of an internal coup in the RNA itself). Thus, it is this tactical inferiority of these politicos more than anything else that crosses out their candidacy for solving the Maoist problem.
Even if these two forces, the jungle-fighters and the street-fighters, were to join hands I do not think much can come out of it. On the part of the political forces it’s a double suicide: whether they win or loose they are doomed. As for the nation, it is only as bad as that the Maoist crisis is going to take longer to solve if ever it is solved. I’m pretty sure that they are not going to fall in the trap set by the Maoists of a united front against the King. If ever they are going to be victorious, it will be Chairman Mao that will rule and not Chiang Kai-shek.
Now moving on to monarchy, in spite of all its flaws, it is still a powerful force as it has the support of the army. And this force is of such a kind that in spite of being diametrically opposite to the Maoists is still a more acceptable one to the international community and the Nepalese people (Word of caution: I am comparing the monarchy to the rebels here). And as it fights the Maoists, it will also be fighting for its own skin and as such will attempt to find a complete solution to the problem (hopefully not one fully relying on the armed forces as any small article on guerilla warfare will clarify that absolute victory in a guerilla warfare if ever possible is impossible by plain militarily means). Well I think we all should realize that King Gyanendra is the only card short of foreign intervention that is worth playing against the Maoists. Well what after the Maoist problem is solved (if it ever is)? Well I guess that’s a completely different story as under such a condition the priorities of the nation will be drastically different to todays. Thus, even when we start from a hate of monarchy, it is very much true that it is the only force with enough power to get the country out of the clutches of the rebels. And it also needs to be pointed out that irrespective of the outcome of the gamble we will be moving backwards, I have no doubt about it. (This incidentally also answers the doubt shared by Roopesh dai and others). Well if the King solves the problem, he will be the hero and we will have to bear with an absolute monarch for quite a bit longer (now that’s going back. isn’t it) and if he is not able to solve the problem we are going back to the stone age from a medieval one. But, it has to be realized that going back can sometimes be better than going forward off a cliff. And that’s a risk we need to take.
Well of course it has to be realized that this course is the best of the worst that we have. It could have been much better if the political parties could somehow have the reins of the military but I think it is a far fetched wish. But I will nevertheless keep my finger crossed for a swift internal coup in the RNA which will bring the military under the political parties. Well however if King Gyanendra goes around doing just what he likes indiscriminately, Nepal is in for big really big trouble. From now on for every single innocent killed or humiliated there will be a birth of five rebels (it is after all a bi-polar power tussle now). I hope he realizes this and will deal with the situation in a careful manner and not like some mad dictator who has no firm opposition.
Thus, let not hate towards the leaders of our nation be our guide as to whom we support. Let it be the infinite love towards our motherland that I hope is still left in us take the better of that hate. Jay Desh!!"
(This is about 1/3rd of the said thread.....)
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