This below is from this Sajha thread. I moved it here to give focus to the topic at hand. As of today it had been viewed over 7800 times.
paramendra Posted on 12-28-04 7:30 PM
Model 1: Girija Is To Be Blamed
The NC was in power more than most during the 90s, and Girija was Prime Minister more than most. But instead of consolidating the democracy, the Girijas of the world became the new establishment. Massive corruption was institutionalized. The aspiratinos of the Madhesis, the Janajatis, the Dalits, the women, the poor were not given proper channels. Things fall apart when the center can not hold.
Girija's inflexibility that served so well in his quest for democracy became his bane post-democracy. A party with a clear majority going for mid-term elections is ridiculous. Girija does not know how to save face: he only knows how to corner his opponents into desperation. He does not understand compromise and coalition building is the name of the game in a democratic framework.
Because the moderate center did not perform, the left and the right came in to fill the vacuum.
Model 2: King G Is To Be Blamed
The king gets neither democracy nor constitutional monarchy, or he would not talk of being a "constructive monarch." He has acted a mirror image of the Maoists in trying to fill the vacuum left by the political parties. That might be cunning, and possible in the murky waters of today, but it is not magananimous. The king patronizingly refers to the country as his family. That shows a lack of gut-feel for basic premises in democracy.
King G got Chand to almost double the royal budget. That is NC style brahmaloot many times over.
Model 3: Deuba Is To Be Blamed
Why get rid of the parliament, bro! In the first place....
Model 4: The Maoists Are To Be Blamed
Not even the Chinese are Maoists anymore. The haat bazar in a remote village in Nepal is the market economy in action. The ancient Buddhist republics were democracies in action. Those twins are the necessary engines for growth. Gorbachev knows more about communist theory than Prachanda or Baburam, and he has said the market is it.
The LTTE have been far more lethal than the Maoists can ever hope to be, militarily. And the LTTE were not able to take over Colombo even after 20 vicious years. So the military option is out.
It is laughable of the Maoists to think the king will willingly give over power. Not this king. If anything King G will want to expand his role.
The dictatorship of the proletariat is not about to happen. Instead it is a game of who will blink first, and the two extreme sides do not care if the commoners suffer in the interim.
Supermodel 1: Panchayat II
There is a very real possibility the king decides he has had enough of it, and he plain takes over. Which will be the final blow of the right to the rest of the political spectrum. But such a move will, by definition, engineer a massive backlash. And more than Maoists will rally behind an all-out call for a republic.
Supermodel 2: "Jana Sarkar"
That does not exist in the rural areas either. It is more statelessness, lawlessness. And the urban centers hold strong. It can not be imagined Kathmandu can be taken over by the Maoists.
Not going to happen.
Supermodel 3: Constituent Assembly
This is the only option for quickie peace. But one suspects those now in power will not go for it. Instead they will wait and wait and wait. For the Maoists to possibly tire out. In the mean time, the people be damned.
Iraq will soon have elections for such a thing. And they will do fine for it.
Let the people decide.
But such a move will have to be simultaneous a total disarming of the Maoists.
Supermodel 4: Inflexibility
That Giriaj disease pervades the entire political spectrum. Mero goru ko barhai takka. This more than anything else is holding progress back.
SITARA Posted on 12-29-04 5:11 AM
paramendra:
Great to read you again! Enjoyed your satire.
Dada_Giri Posted on 12-29-04 6:45 AM
परमेन्दर,
मोडेल र उपमोडेल त कति कति नि है?
By the way, I have few comments.
Supermodel 2: "Jana Sarkar"
>That does not exist in the rural areas either. It is more statelessness, lawlessness. >And the urban centers hold strong. It can not be imagined Kathmandu can be taken >over by the Maoists.
Before 15 years, you could not imagine the option o Panchayati Byabastha.
पनचायतको बिकल्प छैन, भन्या हैन?
सबै नेपाली पञ्च हौँ !
सबै नै पञ्च नेपाली !
मुकुटको छत्र छायाँमा !
एकत्र हामी हिमाली !!
सबै नेपली पञ्च हौँ ... ... ...
भन्या हैन र ब्रो? ४६ सालले देखाइदियो।
नेपाल सरकार शिँह दरबार भित्र मात्र सिमित भइसक्दा पनि अब अहिले आएर जनसरकार निस्कृय छ भन्ने? हैन तिमीले गाऊँ देखेकै छैनौ। कति वर्ष भो?
"साउनमा आँखा फुटेको गोरुले चैत्रमा पनि हरियो देख्छ" भन्या यही हो।
>It can not be imagined Kathmandu can be taken over by the Maoists.
४५ सालसम्म पञ्चहरुले यही भन्थे। नेपलाको माटो सुहाँउदो पञ्चायतको बिकल्प नै छैन भनेर मेरा गोरुका १२ है टक्का गर्थे । समयले बताइदियो।
अन्याय र अत्याचार का बिरुद्द जे पनि हुन्छ । हेर्दै जाऊ समयले प्रमाणित गरेरै छाड्छ।
Dr. Strangelove Posted on 12-29-04 7:08 AM
Girija has to take a whole lot of blame, that's true enough: he held power for most of the 1990-2002 period of bramaloot.
However, even he is not to be exclusively blamed. He, or the NC, did not make the Constitution alone. It was made in a hurry, mainly by NC and the Left, with the single-minded purpose of making the institution of the Monarchy a cypher.
The "jana andolan" of 1990 came riding piggy back on India's shoulders (this Paramendrar doesnot mention, advisedly).
One direct result: during "payback" time ie when drafting the multi-party Constitution of 1990, out goes the Zone of Peace reference in the preamble of the previous Constitution. India, to recall, took offense at the very notion of a Nepal as a Zone of Peace (it would wish that Nepal were nothing more than her private backyard) a concept that by 1990 had received the
support of 116 nations, incluidng the US.
Most of the flaws are thus systemic: in that respect, both the Monarchy and the Maoist are "dissatisfied" parties. The Maoists want to rip the 1990 Constitution making Nepal a one-party state sans the Monarchy; the Palace would like to amend the Constitution providing it with some more powers, to better reflect the reality on the ground as well as to act a check against dictatorial powers by political parties/leaders.
One material difference is that India, at least for now, has decided not to ride the Maoist tiger any more, now joining hands with the Establishment here. Besides, there is strong backing from the US, and China, against the Maoists, the implications of which most don't realize, as yet.
Deuba, etc. don't really matter in the long run. Complicating factors are that the NC has virtually become a sleeping partner of the Maoists (stupidly, I might add: if the Maoists ever come to power they will be slaughtered). The UML does not know what to do: to oppose the Establish of which it is now formally a part or to play revolutionary espousing a line that is difficult to distinguish from the Maiosts.
Hence, we are likely to see the King take the reigns more firmly in his own hands, with perhaps Deuba playing ball, if he wants to continue as PM.
Don't forget that the very first priority for any individual, as for a state, is security. If the
Indians, the Americans and the Chinese, among others, conclude that the Maoist are a common threat, then in today's 9/11 world arraigned against terrorism, there is no way that these powers would object in any determined move by the King/Establishment to knock out the Maoists.
Both India and America have in the past supported non-democracies (panchayat Nepal, Musharraf's Pakistan and King Jigme's Bhutan, for example)as long as they felt it was in their national security interest.
These are things that Bhagat does not mention perhaps because he has no clue. He apparently views Nepalese affairs largely if not solely through Madeshi glasses and thus cannot present an overall or balanced view.
meera Posted on 12-30-04 12:14 PM
pramendra nah, none of the above are to be blamed. All the NRN (non resident Nepalis) are to be blamed (wink wink).
They are the most educated people in the country and they leave their country to go abroad so blame them :D :D
PS: Just flowing with the satire, chill !!!!
confused Posted on 12-30-04 12:26 PM
"अन्याय र अत्याचार का बिरुद्द जे पनि हुन्छ । हेर्दै जाऊ समयले प्रमाणित गरेरै छाड्छ। "
dada giri, strong statement there....:)
meera, so sud i buy u a ticket for u to go bak to nepal?? let me know :)
casey00 Posted on 12-30-04 2:25 PM
meera:
"They are the most educated people in the country and they leave their country to go abroad so blame them :D :D"
-- Not neccessaraily!! thats if you arent being sarcastic. There are tons of EDUCATED people within Nepal who can make serious difference in country's fate...NRN arent doing much..esp the ones in North America..trust me, the money nepalis make in North America stays in North America..my point is there is only so much they can do..they usually have too many excuses and way too much ego to go back to Nepal and do something..oh well..I blame the system not the people...so...we all are to blame..:/
testdirector Posted on 12-30-04 6:06 PM
gret topic. I thought I would see pictures...
One solution, though impossible now, is to reincarnate the last tsunami into a long tiny (10m D) infinitely strong pipe and surround the Nraynhiti Darbar and the residence of the Army Chief with this pipe... then constituent assembly will be there in no time without having to even protest... no bullets, no bloodshed. Of course Prachanda should be then invited to the palace and then ask him if he'd like to be the next president/king...
Nepe Posted on 01-03-05 11:30 AM
glad to see Paramendra's writing on Sajha.
This one did not impress me. Too superficial observations. Nothing new, nothing thought- provoking. The whole piece gives an impression of a state of confusion.
I am aware of Paramendra's takes on various social, political issues from elsewhere and from older postings on Sajha and most of them match with my own. However, sometimes I find rigor and independent thinking lacking in his discussion of some major issue like republicanism and his favorite Sadbhavana. But that's not what is in this piece. So that for some other time.
Dr. Strangelove is obviously a royalist who interprets empowering the monarchy as "reflecting the reality on the ground as well as to act a check against dictatorial powers by political parties/leaders."
Doctor is almost right about the reality. The only error he made is that this reality is not that of the GROUND of Nepal, but is that of the Narayahity Durbar ground. In the same way, he is right about the purpose of empowering monarchy as acting as a check against dictatorial powers by political parties/leaders. The king indeed does not want to be dictated by the political parties; he wants 'Maharajdhiraj sarkar ko sadixa ra asim nigah le chalne raj' back.
Few more quick comments.
It [the constitution] was made in a hurry, mainly by NC and the Left, with the single-minded purpose of making the institution of the Monarchy a cypher.
Not true. There was no SINGLEMINDED purpose. The commission was TRIPLE-MINDED, in fact. The LEFT mind which wanted to make the institution of monarchy a cipher, the MIDDLE mind that had long made it's mind up to co-exist with the monarchy and the RIGHT mind that were there to give power to the monarchy as much as possible and leave some AMBIGUITIES in the constitution to facilitate future maneuver in that direction.
The "jana andolan" of 1990 came riding piggy back on India's shoulders
Really ? All those millions of people of our cities, towns and bazaars who came on the streets for andolan and celebration were Indians ?
paramendra Posted on 01-03-05 9:42 PM
Giri
You might have a point in I might be underestimating the Maobadi "pakad" in the rural areas or even the country at large. But are they really like a government in parts they claim to control? What functions does that government perform? How many countries have recognized that so-called new regime?
Your analogy of the Panchayat is great. Paradigm shifts is what you are talking about. And there is much lacking with the current status quo. But then what should replace it?
The Maoists have given voice to various ethnic grievances. But to what productive avail?
Violence is not an option that brings in stable dividends.
P.S. Your spelling Parmendar rhymes with Alexander, the movie!
Stranglelove
You see to much India everywhere. India is a major regional reality, but it is not as omnipresent as you portray, especially in the little details of Nepal's affairs.
Nepal is so alike India that the ruling elites in Nepal have to keep a fervent anti-India b.s. going on to retain a separate identity, or so they think. That is negative nationalism.
Perhaps the gravest mistake of the 1990 constitution was to not bring the army under the behest of the parliament. But then perhaps the 1990 people did the best under the circumstances, and it was the job of the subsequent parliament to make the amendments. But none bothered.
That Zone Of Peace thing was a joke, a naive pretext for King Birendra to take large entourages on world tours the country could ill afford.
"...a check against dictatorial powers by political parties/leaders..."
What could this possibly mean?
A party within a democratic framework is, by definition, not dictatorial.
You suggest that India might have been on the Maoist side in the recent past. Are you serious? They are fighting their own Maoists in India. Naidu almost got whacked by an outfit.
And you end up by saying mine is a particularly Madhesi slant. And not a Nepali slant. How ridiculous of you to think a Pahadi/Rajabadi slant is national and a Madhesi slant might not be? And what specifics make you think my "models and supermodels" are Madhesi specifically? I would think these scenarios are quite exhaustive of all possible outcomes. Your analysis picks but one of all I have suggested. And hence is more likely biased.
Meera
Jokes aside. I think dual citizenship is the way to go. I am not against the idea of Nepalese going abroad. But I am against the idea of dated laws that prohibit those Nepalis from fully investing in their country of origin.
Globalization and Internet. Bashudhaiva kutumbakam.
Nepe
Nice to see you as well, as always. And you must have your own reasons to say my analysis is not rigorous enough, but rather shallow.
But your analysis fits into being a subset of Supermodel 3: Constituent Assembly . You foresee an assembly that brings forth a republic. That is a possibility.
But I am more nuanced on this.
(1) Constituent Assembly to disarm the Maoists.
(2) And then let the people decide. If they decide to keep constitutional monarchy, I am just fine with that.
Tundikhel Posted on 01-04-05 12:26 PM
a Ha Ha Ho Ho Ho !!!!!!
This prank was totally intended for those folks who think of themselves as MAPAI. My dear fren Paramendra this just proves the point.... that you think of yourself larger than life. I guess you don't know how to be humble. He he he
This too from a person who was posting ads for other sites here in sajha till he was warned. He was even asking people to click on the logo so he can gett some $$$$ off of it.
Heck why not make it a franchise and have Paramendra rake in the benefits. Dhuutt Saaala !!!!
paramendra Posted on 01-04-05 10:39 PM
Ethnic Politics Across South Asia And Beyond: Tamils In Sri Lanka, Madhesis In Nepal
Paramendra Bhagat
January 4, 2005
Submitted to Lines magazine.
Pade_Queen_no.1 Posted on 01-05-05 12:03 PM
paremndra,
liked looking at Bishun and Babita's pics. But I don't understand KAMOTH ko pani pic rakne ke jarurat thiyo? Isn't it too much? I understand the pics were posted for people back home, who might not have seen KAMOTH all their lives - kamoth baneko chara kasto huncha. But Bishun should rise above all these petty KAMOTHS, sinks, shower-curtains, he should rise above materialistic show-off business (tyo pani kehi nabhaeka garib lai) , and try his best and work towards that all his village peopple will have their own PRIVATE TOILETS one day with their own KAMOTHS, not just see KAMODTHS in BIshuns private bathroom.
Tundikhel Posted on 01-05-05 1:15 PM
Its called showing off. And that too not even his own pics. this is not the first time this moron has done this.
Pade_Queen_no.1 Posted on 01-05-05 1:49 PM
Tundikhel, whoever u are, u are prejudiced towards Parmendra, at least from the above two posting its clear. Personally, I've nothing against Parmendra, I respect him for who he is. Same goes with Bishun too. It was my mistake that I posted my man ko kura on this thread. Bekar ma u got another chance to pounce on Parmendra.
paramendra Posted on 01-05-05 3:17 PM
The Bharat Bhusan article.
Bharat Bhushan starts out by saying multi-party democracy and constitutional monarchy in Nepal were Indian gifts. That is an elitist, arrogant, non-democratic viewpoint that directly disrespects the 23 million Nepalese, as is the viewpoint held by the Kathmandu elite that the very notion of a Constituent Assembly is anathema: heck, the people might actually end up having a say in the constitution that governs the country in which they live.
King Gyanendra might as well be seeking an executive monarchy, and that might be the Maoists? greatest gift to the king, but then the Nepali Congress stalwarts like Girija and Deuba are no less to be blamed, Girija more than most.
There is too much emphasis on the external players: India, US, et al. There is too much emphasis on the elitist internal players: king, party leaders, Maoists. What about the people? Let them speak. And they will through a Constituent Assembly.
And UN mediation should be welcomed. It is okay to get third party aid, why is it not okay to get third party mediation!
The thing about wanting to revive the parliament is (1) it does not solve the Maoist problem, and (2) it might not be technically possible to do it in the first place. The parliament?s term has long expired.
pisces Posted on 01-05-05 4:09 PM
Lets be simple.
Paramendra is without any doubt a pro-indian, not to be surprised. He thinks, only solution to resolve the situation is - by bringing Nepal under Indian rule; else doesn't work. Hope not someday Janakpur will belong to BIHAR and RABADI DEVI will be ruling over we Nepali. Why the heck we care what Bharat Bhusan has said? Tell me, What Hridasyas (Opps hard to spell) Tripathi has to say ?
Dr Strangelove -- > The "jana andolan" of 1990 came riding piggy back on India's shoulders - I am so convinced, doctor.
Nepe Dai replied -- > Really ? All those millions of people of our cities, towns and bazaars who came on the streets for andolan and celebration were Indians ?
Nepe Dai, no Indians came on the street marching and tourching but they were the one to pull the strings. In other words WE Adolankari Nepali were BADAR and they were MADARI. Don't be shamed, yes we danced in their DAMARU ko DUM DUM. Though they were out of sight of yours and mine, they worked a lot - backstage. Do you know Quarter of those millions didn't even know what "Jaana Andolan" was all about, they did for fun. Half were definately ridding piggy back on Indian's Shoulders - and who else better represent India than Girja and Krishna? Remaining were frustrated BAMPANTHI who later became Maoist and Rest were pro-monarch who then were active MANDALE. Yet another group were those under extreme porverty line they didn't have energry to join the force, otherwise they would be part of our team (Andolankari).
Ki K HO?
testdirector Posted on 01-05-05 4:17 PM
he democracy we enjoyed after the revolt in 1990 was brought in by Nepalese but was hugely successful because India indirectly helped the rebellious political parties by imposing sanctions and so on. Would there have been a multiparty system had India not imposed all kinds of hurdles to the then government? The government, including King Birendra, were trying all they could to avert any coup d'etat back then. The governement became so weak then because of the sanctions that King Birendra had no choice, but tried very hard to hold onto the last straw. Had India directly calculated the effects of sanctions and provided a clearcut, albeit unofficial, roadmap? I doubt it existed as such, but intentions of all sanctions, which were double-edged, were clear.
Our big brother looks at Nepal much more differently than it looks at Pakistan, or for that matter Bhutan, although right now Bhutan might be enjoying closer ties with India than Nepal is. Our cultural similarities are so vivid that many Indians, mostly from the southern parts, still think Nepal is a part of India. Nepal is a big market for India and a big source of resources. And of course Nepal barely escaped from the grasp of India when the partition took place. It reminds me of mickey mouse cartoons.
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Now should India impose sanctions again, she will be having to send troops along with the rations it will let trickle through the checkpoints (it has to let them through, though). The equation now has changed. The situation is so bad, there is a good chance that already the RNA is thinking of taking the executive power in its hand. On the other hand, the second force now is Maoists, only then the third force is the government. Either way this prolonged crisis is not working towards the benefit of the king, not to mention its effect on commn people. The king thinks he is winning by "divide and rule" tactics, my conclusion is he is losing big time. This is only a matter of time that the king will shed his executive power, and a good possibility that Paras will not be a king! Only solution is constituent assembly, before that a parliament which will help it be formed and which showcase the king inside the palace where he belongs. ONly hope is that Prachanda and Baburam are both still sane and that they will then come to the table in reality (they may not come to the table even then).
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To allow third party to help you is not always good. It is not OK to accept donations from other countries if you can reject them. I believe Nepal would have rejected foreign donations every single time if only she could have. A country where more than 50 % of the budget is run by foreign aid, it is ridiculous to even think of rejecting foreign donations.( An example is a proud rejection by India to the foreign offers for foreign donations for recovery from tsunami disaster. This is a loud and clear message to the world that now India is global force to reckon with.)
Having said that, we may not have a choice to settle this crisis otherwise. Also, foreign mediations (much of it would be interventions by big bosses) may not bear any fruits; been there, seen that! So while carefully analysing the broader aspects of foreign interventions in our poor country, other home-grown strategies should be given top priorities. Always keep your problems at home inside your house, as far as possible!
Nepe Posted on 01-05-05 8:29 PM
paramendra wrote:
>You foresee an assembly that brings forth a republic.
Not really. Assembly or not Assembly, a republic will come. Because आजको र आजसम्मको परिस्थितिमा गणतन्त्र बाहेक अरु कुनै सेटअप छैन जहाँ परम्परागत महत्वाकांक्षी राजा बाहेक अरु अटाउन नसकुन् । अपरम्परागत हुने मर्दपन शाही परिवारमा छ भने महत्वाकांक्षी राजा समेत यसमा अटाउँछ । ज्ञानेन्द्र शाह पारस शाह राष्ट्रपतिको चुनाव लड्न सक्छन्, आँट छ भने । यति कुरा तिमी हामी जस्ता बुद्धि बेचेर खानेमात्र होइन पसिना बेचेर खाने हरेक नेपालीलाई समेत थाहा छ । गणतन्त्र भन्दा कमसल प्रजातन्त्र दिगो नहुने कुरा अब छर्लंगै छ । बाँकी एउटा गतिलो धक्का मात्र हो । दिन धेरै टाढा छैन ।
>That is a possibility.
>But I am more nuanced on this.
>(1) Constituent Assembly to disarm the Maoists.
>(2) And then let the people decide. If they decide to keep constitutional monarchy, I am just >fine with that.
म पनि नुआन्स्ड नै छु । बन्धुले मेरो कुख्यात स्तम्भ पढ्नु भा छ ?
paramendra Posted on 01-06-05 9:29 PM
Nepe.
How do you insert Devnagari in here? I have seen others do it as well.
Yes. I have read your column. I guess you are a diehard republican.
If a republican state is so sure to come about, what do you think are the intermediate steps that will lead to it?
zalimSingh Posted on 01-07-05 1:07 AM
paramendra dai, nice analysis. ancient rome was a republic, modern day US is a republic. i seriously doubt if the maoists will ever bring that kind of republic to nepal. so i say maoist supporters should seriously refrain from misusing the term republic.
harkedai Posted on 01-07-05 11:12 AM
Aree daju haru, Daju haru sanga ta mero k tulana garnu, malai ta raajniti ko barema khasai teti gyan chaina. Tara mero aaja samma ko anibhab ra herai bata Nepal ma yedi kunai saasan le kaam garcha bhane tyo ho pakistan ko jasto army saasan. Nepal ko aadhunik ukhanai cha ni Nepal ko kaanun banaune le nai jaanun. Kunai pani desh ko unnati hunalai kaanun hoina tesko palana huna parcha, sambidhan ferne hoina teshko ijjat huna parcha. England ko itihaas harau na daju haru, sambidhan nabhai pani ta chalekai cha. Pahila desh basi ma desh ko lagi maya ra ijjat hunu parcha. Nepal ma aba sambidhan sabha ko hoina army kuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu ko aawasyakta cha jasto malai lagcha. Na ta nepali politicians haru ma descipline cha na ta dar nai cha. Manche ko pragati ko lagi hunu parne nai yo dui kura ho, descipline ra dar.
Maobadi pani dudh le nuhako pakkai hoina, neta haru ko ta kurai nagarau, big G ta big G bhai hale. Crown prince aafai tyaape, k kkura garnu. Kolle garne ta nepal ko lagi. Ali janne sunne bhaneka NRN haru hun, tini haru sabai bidesh palayen garera nepal ko kura matra garne. Yesto hunu parne testo hunu parne, Kahile yo bhayena kahile tyo bhayena. Dual citizenship ko byawastha garnu paryo adi ettyadi, garne tini haru pani kehi hoina. NRN bhaneka chai abhineta haru jastai hun, kaam kehi nagarne ani yo bhayena tyo bhayena matra bhanne. Tetra bideshi company nepal ma khuleka chan, indian haru le aayera investment gareka chan, tyo mula kaanun nabhako dehs ma NRN haru le garna sakdainan ? Definately sakchan.
Tesh karan aba Nepal ma tadkaro roop ma khacho bhako chai ahile at least 20 years ko lagi army saasan ho. Ahile ko generation ko neta haru namori kana hune wala kehi chaina. Budo saade le gai ogateko jasto, kursi ogatera baschan.
Daaju haru, maile j jati lekhe tyo mero buddhi le dekheko ho, kura galat sahi thah chaina, bharkhar politics lai analysis suru gareko. Galat boleko bhaye saachyidinu hola.
Ani daju haru bata yo nepali ma post garna k garnu parcha bhanne pani salla paye sarai ramro hunthyo, aba dekhi nepali ma nai post garthe.
god bless you all
Nepe Posted on 01-07-05 5:41 PM
paramendra,
What do you mean by "intermediate steps" ? I mean what should we say about the "intermediate steps" that led to the fall of the full fledged monarchy we call Panchayat ? Do you count the ३६ सालको जनमत संग्रह as an intermediate step for the fall of Panchayat or do you count the daily events/news of ४६ सालको जनआन्दोलन as those intermediate steps ?
intermediate भनेनि Final भनेनि, गणतन्त्र गणतन्त्रवादी जनआन्दोलनबाटै आउनेछ भन्ने कुरा बुझ्न त राजा र राजकुमारको अनुहार हेरे पुग्छ । भलादमी भनिएको वीरेन्द्रले त उसको घाँटी नसमाती अधिकार कटौती गर्न मान्नुभएन भने यो खुल्लेआम धुर्त ज्ञानेन्द्रको त के कुरा गराई भो र ?
क्रमश:
Nepe Posted on 01-07-05 5:42 PM
र यो गणतन्त्रवादी जनआन्दोलन ४६ सालको प्रजातन्त्रवादी जनआन्दोलन जस्तै राजनैतिक पार्टीहरुलाई पछि पारेर अगाडी बढेको जनउभारको रुपमा आउनेछ भन्नेमा मलाई शंका छैन । फरक कति भने यो जनउभारलाई आवश्यक ठाने आमहत्या वा त्यस्तै प्रकारको रक्तपातद्वारा दबाउने प्रयास गर्न राजाप्रति वफादार शाही सेना मानसिक रुपले तयार भैसकेको छ । अन्तिम समयतिर केही जर्साबहरुको घैंटोमा घाम लागेर उनीहरु आन्दोलनरत नागरिक समाजमा सामेल हुन पनि सक्छन् । तर सानो ठूलो रक्तपात हुने नै देख्छु म । जे भए पनि परिणामत: पार्टीबाहिरका वा पार्टीबाट विद्रोह गरेर संवैधानिक राजतन्त्रको लछुमन रेखा तोडेका केही नयाँ, ताजा नेताहरु र विभूतिहरु देखा पर्नेछन् । माओवादी पार्टी टुक्रिनेछ । नरम समुहले प्रजातन्त्रिक गणतन्त्रलाई अन्तिम क्रान्तिको रुपमा स्विकार्ने छ । गरम समुहले यसलाई तत्कालको लागि आलोचनात्मक समर्थन मात्र गर्ने भन्नेछ ।
पुग्यो कि अरु पनि दिम् "intermediate steps" को भविष्यवाणी ?
Nepe
P.S. नेपाली र अंग्रेजी सरोबर मिसाउन त Unicode प्रयोग गर्नु पर्छ । सोधम न छेवैको कुनै कम्प्युटर गीकलाई ।
Dada_Giri Posted on 01-08-05 7:44 AM
>माओवादी पार्टी टुक्रिनेछ
माओबादी पार्टी त मधिसे टाइगर बनेर पनि एउटा ढिक्का निस्किसक्यो। अरु पनि ढिक्का ढिक्कामा छ। छुट्टिन्छ। राई टाइगर, भो मगर टाइगर भो। यो जातिगत ढिक्का सबै फुट्न सजिलो छ।
तर नेपे जीले भन्या जस्तो २०० वर्ष पुरानो राजतन्त्रको जरो उखाल्न त्यती सजिलो पनि छैन।
र यो जरो उखालिनबाट जोगाउन ज्ञानेन्द्र शाहले जे पनि गर्न सक्छन्।
मरे पछि डुमै राजा भन्या जस्तो देशमा बिदेशी सेना भित्राउन पनि पछि नपर्लान्।
२०० वर्षसम्म बावु बाजेले राज्य गरेको ठाँउबाट जानु नै छ भने के मतलब नि।
अब सडकमा अहिले आन्दोलन गर्या जस्तो गर्ने ४ पार्टी पनि पदको लागि कराइराखेका मात्र हुन्। पद पाएदेखि अझैपनि उनीहरु राजा भक्त छन्।
त्यसैले नेपे जीले भन्या जस्तो Intermediate Stepआउनलाई यो युद्द अझै २० वर्ष लम्बिनुपर्छ।
तर आर्थिक स्थितीको कुरा यहाँ आएन। नेपालको गृह अर्थतन्त्र भन्या बिदेशी रेमिटेन्स हो ।
अहिलेका केही वर्ष यसले धानेको छ। आर्थिक स्थिती जर्जर भएपछि सत्ता ढल्छ। त्यसै ढल्छ।
अस्ति इण्डोनेसियामा देखिहाल्नु भो नि। त्यही मौका पारेर, East Timore स्वतन्त्र हुन सक्यो।
राजतन्त्र चल्न सक्छ तर त्यसपछि नेपालमा स्थिरता आउन सक्छ भन्न चाँही मुस्किल छ।
त्यसैले,
अब नेपाल गयो!
मेरो मनमा लाग्या २ कौडिको तर्क यसो थप्या मात्रै है।
Dada_Giri Posted on 01-08-05 7:47 AM
राजतन्त्र चल्न सक्छ -> राजतन्त्र ढल्न सक्छ
mahakaal Posted on 01-08-05 9:08 AM
The "jana andolan" of 1990 came riding piggy back on India's shoulders
Really ? All those millions of people of our cities, towns and bazaars who came on the streets for andolan and celebration were Indians ?
ooooh yeah nepe it came riding the piggy back on india's shoulders.accept it or not.you know it.and please check your millions thing casue "millions" is a lot in count.
kingship might fall in this sorry state but god if it does then nepal is faaaacked totallly,completely.if the monarchy falls i wish inida or china or any country take over nepal than congress communist maosit ruling the nation.baru aru ley nararmo gareko sahanu sajilo huncha tara afnai desh ko daju bhai ley bhanda ie the congress communist maoist mofos.
Nepe Posted on 01-08-05 11:31 AM
दादागिरीजी, मैले माओवादीको सानातिना टुक्राहरु उप्कने कुरा गरेको हैन, ठूलो र दुई फब्ल्याटो हुने सैध्दान्तिक चिराईको कुरा गरेको हो । र मेरो विचारमा त्यो गणतान्त्रिक क्रान्तिको शिखरमा वा क्रान्ति पछि हुनेछ, अघि होईन । गणतन्त्र is the end of the Maoists. गणतन्त्र बाहेक अरु कुरालाई the end of the Maoists ठान्नु आफैले आफैलाई खुशि तुल्याउने काम मात्र हो, यथार्थको अवलोकन होईन । (Ashu को थ्रेडको प्रसंग जोडिदिएको क्या )
तपाई २० वर्ष भन्नुहुन्छ । म ५ वर्ष ठान्छु । यो अर्धशताव्धीमा जति छिटोछिटो र नसोचिएको राजनैतिक घटनाहरु कहिल्यै भएनन् ।
तपाई यो राजतन्त्रको जरालाई जमिनमाथि बाट मात्र हेरेर २०० वर्ष पुरानो भन्नुहुन्छ । मैले जमिन मुनि हेर्दा त यो २०० हप्ता (200 weeks) मात्र पुरानो पो देख्छु । ज्ञानेन्द्रले पाएको अपुताली कानूनी हिसापले २०० वर्ष पुरानो राजतन्त्र होला, तर जनभावनात्मक हिसापमा यो २०० हप्ता पुरानो अपुतालीतन्त्र मात्र हो ।
Nepe Posted on 01-08-05 11:32 AM
जहासम्म स्थिरताको कुरा छ, प्रजातन्त्र, by definition, एक अस्थिरतन्त्र नै हो । राष्ट्रिय विखण्डन, जातिय झडप आदिको सम्भावनाको कुरा गरेको हो भने वास्तवमा गणतन्त्रले त त्यसलाई अहिलेको आंशिक राजतन्त्रमा हुने सम्भावना भन्दा कता कता न्यून गर्नेछ, म त भन्छु शुन्यिकरण नै गर्नेछ ।
राजसंस्थाद्वारा प्रतिनिधित, प्रायोजित, संरक्षित, कृत, पालित क्षेत्री-बाहुन-हिन्दु-पहाडे-पुरुष प्रधानता-प्रभुता नै त हो यसको कारक-संभावक तत्व । गणतन्त्रले यस्तो जाती-क्षेत्र-धर्म-लिङ्ग विशेषको प्रभुतालाई त राजतन्त्रसंगै सती पो पठाईदिन्छ त ।
गणतन्त्रले पहिलो पटक नेपाललाई जातीय-क्षेत्रिय-धार्मिक-लैङ्गिक समानताको स्पष्ट, निर्विवाद र पूर्ण National resolve दिनेछ । यसले राजसंस्थाको संप्रभुत्वमा आधारित दास राष्ट्रियतालाई हटाई त्यसको ठाँउमा समान जनसंप्रभुत्वमा आधारित नागरिक राष्ट्रियतालाई स्थापना गर्नेछ । संक्षेपमा, गणतन्त्रले राष्ट्रियतालाई आजको युग अनुरुप र बलियो बनाउँछ भने आंशिक राजतन्त्रले धोबीको कुकुर । पूर्ण राजतन्त्रको लागि त नेपाल अब कहिल्यै तयार छैन, दुईचार जना साझावासीले तिनिहरुको टाउको पर्खालमा जतिसुकै ठोकेपनि ।
tilkumari Posted on 01-08-05 2:44 PM
Hya sappai ustai ho
Baru politics nai nabhaye ni hunthyo ni. khoi bahudal le k garyo panchayat le k garyo
rana le k gare
khoi ma kehi dekhdina
sap janta haru lai luto ani baso tehi ho
paramendra Posted on 01-11-05 9:11 AM
This discussion has veered towards the bigger picture and the possible long term, what with die-hard republicans like Nepe in the midst. What about the short term? What next?
Nepe Posted on 01-11-05 9:16 PM
परमेन्द्र,
आजका मिति देखि गणतान्त्रिक जनआन्दोलन हुने समयबिच के कस्ता दैनिक घटनाहरु घट्लान भनेर speculation गर्नमा बढी चाख देखिन्छ बन्धुको । यस्तो चाख हरेकमा हुनु सामान्यत: स्वाभाविक भएता पनि परमेन्द्र बन्धुले चाही कुनै खास प्रयोजनका निम्ति यी forecast हरु जान्न चाहेको जस्तो बुझिन्छ । के हो त्यो प्रयोजन, बन्धु ?
कुनै भरपर्दो forecast जान्न पाए आफ्नो दुनो, whatever that is, कतापट्टि लाग्दा बढी सोझिन्छ त्यतै लाग्ने कुनै चतुर आशय त होईन, परमेन्द्रको ?
होईन भने अहिलेको यस्तो ठूल्ठूलो मूल्यको समय (just look at the time, money and life and health our country is wasting everyday) भनेको गणतन्त्रलाई यथासम्भव छिटो सम्भव बनाउन ऐतिहासिक योगदान गर्ने समय हो कि forecast हेरेर झिङ्गेदाउ थाप्ने समय हो ?
Nepe Posted on 01-11-05 9:17 PM
म गणतन्त्रको [ स्वघोषित साईबर] योद्धाको हैसियतले परमेन्द्रलाई एउटा निजी र नैतिक प्रश्न गर्न चाहन्छु । गणतन्त्रको लागि तिमिले योगदान दिनु पर्दैन ? तिम्रो राष्ट्रिय कर्तव्यमा पर्दैन त्यो ?
कि मधेशी हकहितको लागि लड्ने मधेशी कर्तव्य प्रजातन्त्रको लागि लड्ने राष्ट्रिय कर्तव्यबाट पृथक र स्वतन्त्र छ ?
परमेन्द्रको अहिलेसम्मको चाला हेर्दा उनले त्यसलाई पृथक नै देखेको बुझ्छु म ? Correct me if I am wrong.
वास्तवमा मलाई यस विषयमा बहस गर्न धेरै पहिले देखि मन थियो । अस्ति हुँदो परमेन्द्रलाई उनको गणतन्त्र प्रतिको हल्काफुल्का र सदभावना प्रतिको परतान्त्रिक चिन्तन भनेर बहसको लागि provoke गर्न खोजेको हुँ मैले । तर उनि चिप्लिन रुचाईरहेका छन् ।
Nepe Posted on 01-11-05 9:19 PM
Now back to political forecast. राजनैतिक ज्योतिषि होईन म, दैनिक भविष्यवाणी गर्न । तर यति चाही भन्न सक्छु । चार पार्टीको आन्दोलनले तबसम्म प्राण र जनसमर्थन पाउने छैन जबसम्म यो गणतान्त्रिक आन्दोलन बन्दैन । र मैले यो कुरा psychic भएर भनेको होइन, गएका सालहरुमा गणतन्त्रको केवल शब्दोच्चारणले मात्तै पनि यसमा ल्याएको उत्साह, जनसहभागिता र चासोलाई हेरेर भनेको हो ।
र गणतान्त्रिक जनआन्दोलन नहुन्जेल राजाले अनेक तमाशा देखाईरहने छ र अगणतान्त्रिक पार्टी नेतृत्वहरुलाई राजाले उसको आफ्नै term मा खेलाईरहने छ । पार्टीहरुमा गणतान्त्रिक नेतृत्व वा कमसेकम चाप आएपछि मात्र गुणात्मक परिवर्तनहरु हुनेछन् । त्यो नहुन्जेल समाचार महत्वका झिनामसिना खेलहरु यी बाउन्ने models and supermodels हरुबीच देख्न पाउने छौं हामीहरु ले, त्यत्ति हो ।
Dada_Giri Posted on 01-12-05 6:00 AM
>गणतन्त्रले यस्तो जाती-क्षेत्र-धर्म-लिङ्ग विशेषको प्रभुतालाई त राजतन्त्रसंगै सती पो पठाईदिन्छ त ।
नेपे जी, यसरी ठोकुवा गर्न र आशाबादी हुन त मलाई पनि मन थियो तर यी सब कुराहरु त्यती सामान्य कुरा हैनन्।
जातभात छुवाछुत भन्ने कुरा चन्द्र शमसेरको पालामै खत्तम हुनुपर्ने हैन र? परिबर्तन बेलाबकत हुन्छ र प्रयास गरेको पनि देखिन्छ। तर सफल नहुनुमा कारक तत्त्व राजा वा राजतन्त्र नै हो भन्नु अरुलाई दोष थुपार्न पल्केकाहरुले भन्ने कुरा हो जस्तो मलाई लाग्छ।
गाउव फर्क अभियान पनि राम्रो र उदार निति तियो कालि कुरा के भने नि कार्यान्वयान हुन सकेन। सैद्दान्तिक हिसाबले धेरै राम्रो कदम थियो।
शान्ति क्षेत्र प्रर्ताब पनि राम्रो कुरा थियो।
यिनिहरु असफल हुनुमा खालि राजतन्त्रको दोष हो भन्न नमिल्ला कि।
Dada_Giri Posted on 01-12-05 6:05 AM
>म गणतन्त्रको [ स्वघोषित साईबर] योद्धाको हैसियतले परमेन्द्रलाई एउटा निजी र नैतिक प्रश्न गर्न चाहन्छु । गणतन्त्रको लागि तिमिले योगदान दिनु पर्दैन ? तिम्रो राष्ट्रिय कर्तव्यमा पर्दैन त्यो ?
यी भनेका त आफ्नो धारभित्र अरुलाई लगम लगाएर सोझाउन का लागि प्रयोग गरिने आदर्स हैनन् र? यस्ता आद्र्सहरुसित अब नेपाली जनता जो कोही पनि परिचित भइसकेका छन्। Hypothetical कुराहरु ल्याएर जनमानसलाई गाँजाको नसामा झुलाउने र भोट माग्ने सस्तो लोकपृयताबाट सबै हच्किसकेको हुनुपर्छ। अझ यसलाई म नेपालीमा भन्ने हो भने मृगतृष्णा असर नै भन्दापनि अत्युक्ति होला जस्तो लाग्दैन।
Dada_Giri Posted on 01-12-05 6:15 AM
नेपे जीका सबै उदगारहरु गहकिला र मार्िक छन् तर सबै कुरालाई जबर्जस्ती @सहज@ सम्झिएको आभाष हुन्छ।
खासगरी बामपन्ती अथवा दक्षिणपन्थि नेताहरुले आसाको खेती जनातामाथि छर्ने काम गर्छन् र यो केती जब आसामै सिमित हुन्छ अनि जनमानसमा उकुसमुकुस श्रृजना हुन्छ । जसको फलस्वरुप अरुप्रति आक्रोस् पोख्ने प्रबृत्तीको बिकास हुन्छ।
माथि उल्लेखित कुराहरु निस्कृय राजतन्त्रको उपस्थितीमा प्रजातन्त्रबाट सम्भव हुँदैन भनेर ठोकुवा गर्नुमा मैले नेपेजीको लेखमा खासै जरो फेला पार्न सकिन।
कतै प्रकृयागत कुरै नगरीकन कालि @निर्बिबाद हुन्छ@ मात्र भनेर उम्किन खोज्नु भएको त हैन।
ashu Posted on 01-12-05 7:12 AM
Nepe wrote:
"गएका सालहरुमा गणतन्त्रको केवल शब्दोच्चारणले मात्तै पनि यसमा ल्याएको उत्साह, जनसहभागिता र चासोलाई हेरेर भनेको हो ।"
God knows from where Nepe saw all this उत्साह, जनसहभागिता र चासो, but what I, as
a mere sidewalk darshak near my then office, saw in Kathmandu last spring were people who were so bored on many occasions that comedians such as Manoj Gajurel had to be brought in to perform their routines to entertain the agitating crowd in Ratna Park.
And there were students who were throwing rocks at innocent passers-by and vehicles for days on end from the kaushi of Tri Chandra College.
Sure, there were laathi charges, and dauda-daud, and massive pictures opf the crowd in the dailies in the the first few days.
But as photographer Usha Tiwari (no relative of mine!) and other amateur film-makers captured in their camcorders (these films were subsequently shown as 'shorts' in Kathmandu), for most people being a part of the julus was just a big, ramailo if confusing ramita.
No wonder the whole thing fizzled after a few weeks.
But don't take my word for it.
Even our fire-breathing friend Khagendra Sangraula -- who did everything to EXAGGERATE the effects of all those ramitas even when the realities were quite different at Ratna Park -- FINALLY, finally and at last appears to have reached similar conclusions, if his today's (Jan 12) Kantipur piece is anything to go by.
But Nepe, being Nepe, would refuse to believe any of it, of course. He has a simple formula, which is hypotenthical at best, but he talks as though it held the key to all of Nepal's problems.
Having said that, I now await a verbal tsunami from Nepe -- branding me as a pro-monarch person and much else besides :-)
oohi
ashu
Nepe Posted on 01-12-05 11:29 AM
OK, Ashu first. Before verbal tsunami, let me start with this.
It is me who has been telling that this political parties' socalled आन्दोलन has not yet become and will not become a real जनआन्दोलन until it goes for the गणतन्त्र. On political parties' part, it has remained a big farce most of the time.
However, I am talking about some rare and brief moments when the civil society of Kathmandu did came to the street to protest the शाही प्रतिगमन, when our brave youth shouted the slogan for the republic, when विघटित संसदको सडक अधिवेशन (प्रज्ञाप्रतिष्ठान) मा सदस्यहरुले सबभन्दा जोडले र लामो ताली गणतन्त्रको शब्द उच्चारण हुँदा लगाए ।
I have talked about these glorious and telling moments with Ashu Tiwari when they were happening and even before when गणतन्त्र को कुरा was just started to become visible.
It still gets to Ashu's nerve, when I quoted Ashu as almost saying in Al-sahafic way " There is no republican infedals in Kathmandu, Never. " Doesn't it Ashu ?
I have been watching this guy all along. I have seen how he used to dismiss the republicans, how he used to ridicule them, how he never commented positively on the participation of the members of the civil society (even when we talked about मन्जुश्री थापाको टाउको फुटेको घटना, this guy's cold attitude to the protest was so visible), how he gleefully reported about the शिथिलता of andolan after UML defected. Once he was even misquoting Hari Roka as giving suggestion to the political parties to give up the protest against the king because there was no public support for it. Ask Hari Roka, he was not doing what Ashu liked him to do. On the contrary, Hari Roka was suggesting the political parties to do andolan for agendas that excite people. Obviously Hari was for the voice of republicans. But Ashu so pathetically wished and in fact did propaganda that Hari was advocating for the surrender to the King. A poster recently saw Ashu Tiwari a royalist in roundabout way. Of course. It is so entertaining to see Ashu struggling to find vague words to support the King. बिचरा, भन्न पनि नसक्ने, नभन्न पनि नसक्ने ।
It is no difficult to know you Ashu. Keep serving whoever fits you. Your reactionary activities against the movement for republic Nepal is not going to stop it. We will have it. Guy like you will be left behind to be ridiculed by the history itself. On a second thought, I will be waiting with a garland to welcome you when in the democratic republic of Nepal you will come ङिच्च दाँत देखाउदै म पनि प्रजातन्त्रवादी नै हुँ भन्दै ।
Let me go find some flowers for you. Wallstreet को जागिर त्याग गरेर स्वदेशमा फर्कि राजतन्त्रको सेवा गर्ने देशभक्त तिवारीजीको सम्मानमा, कमसेकम ।
ashu Posted on 01-12-05 7:54 PM
Nepe,
That was quite a verbal tsunami, I must say.
Thank God, it remains so damn easy to trigger you off with a few chosen remarks, and off you will go, Nepe, spraying fire-and-brimstone over those who dare question your cherished hypothesis and providing us with free political entertainment.
Fortunately, I remain amused by your performance, and have no interest in returning the compliments.
Still, your outburst above, with the usual false accusations, has all the hallmarks of the famous Nepe Method.
That is: Accuse, ridicule, show that those disagree with you are closet royalists (even when they are not), cling on to scraps of information and baloon them up to make grand theories, and insist that others are wrong and you are right even when the ground below is shifting, murky and unclear.
Keep it up, Nepe.
Meantime, I look forward to meeting Hari Roka again when I'm next in Kathmandu, and sharpening my understanding of 'republicanism' by reading Ron Chernow's extremely gripping biography of Alexander Hamilton later this week-end. I am half-way into that book, and I do recommend that you do read it at some point.
oohi
ashu
paramendra Posted on 01-12-05 8:50 PM
Finally this feels like a Sajha thread! Welcome Nepe-Ashu duo!
:-)
Why retain monarchy?
Why go for a republic?
Those might be more positive talk.
Nepe Posted on 01-12-05 9:58 PM
Yes, Ashu, we have been through innumerable rounds of debates or call it वाकयुद्ध. So you certainly know what triggers me off. Say 'there is no republican infedals in Kathmandu, Never' and refuse to refute the misinformation when I show you them, I trigger off. Say there was never a moment of people's solidarity and enthusiasm for andolan and not know how to hide your shame when I show you when, I trigger off. Praise the King, curse everybody else and claim you are not serving the monarch, I trigger off. Certainly I do. And certainly you know. Thank God. अवश्य ।
ashu Posted on 01-13-05 3:47 AM
Nepe wrote:
"Wallstreet को जागिर त्याग गरेर स्वदेशमा फर्कि
राजतन्त्रको सेवा गर्ने देशभक्त . . ."
Thank you, Nepe.
The first half of your sentence is true
The second half is verifiably FALSE.
But both halves are entertaining and hilarious.
Alas, I lack your kind of poetic wrath, nor to mention your sense of unfairness, to hurl similarly juicy words and phrases at you.
*************
Paramendra asked:
Why retain monarchy?
Why go for a republic?
My response: This monarchy and republic ka kura is premature and diversionary in Nepal at this time. No matter how polished our arguments are for either case, they remain -- and this is what Nepe never understands -- NOTHING more than conjectures and hypotheses at this time. [Nepe mistakes projected-in-the-future hypothesis as the truth, and his sort of attitude is similar to that of the Maoists who too take their their projected hypotheises as certainties!]
It's only pie-in-the-sky Nepali intellectuals, doomed to look at Nepal with their face pressed against the glass while being based in comfy Washington DC who have the goddamn luxury to engage in such utterly silly kura-kani, far removed as they are from the killing fields of Nepal.
The more pressing reality in Nepal is that all should aim to be united FIRST to completely defang the Maoists (who are NOT to be trusted at all) WHILE raising hell against the army's excesses. Once we take care of these priorities, the roles of the parties and the King will become clearer in a post-Maoist Nepal, and then we can have a second round of debate re: monarchy versus republicanism, if need be.
Anything else just allows the Maoists to buy time at everyone's expense and more people continue to get killed.
After all, Nepalis cannot be expectged to fight too many battles (against the Maoists, King and the political parties) on too many fronts at the same time. We have to fight one battle at a time.
oohi
ashu
Dada_Giri Posted on 01-13-05 4:42 AM
हामी नदिका दुई किनारा
हाम्रो मिलन असम्भव छ ... ... ...
ल नेपे जी र आशु जीलाई Dedicated.
>The more pressing reality in Nepal is that all should aim to be united FIRST to completely defang the Maoists
????
हेन यो त दिवास्पना मा परे जस्तो छ नि, आशु जी ।
कसैले अन्याय र अत्याचार सहन नसकेर आफ्नो हक अधिकारको लागि छातीमा गोली थाप्न तयार भएकाहरुलाई दाबाउन एकजुट हुन आग्रह गर्छ बने त्यसलाई पनि समयले माफि दिने छैन।
isolated freak Posted on 01-13-05 6:50 AM Reply | Notify Admin
efore we discuss, argue and get one on one with each other, we all need to understand one thing, the most important thing, I?d say: What is today?s Nepal? Just how many Nepals are there within Nepal? Do we even have a consensus on NEPAL? What is Nepal for us?
1. Parmendra?s Nepal: A country that does not respect the minority?s rights. A country that has not given him or his community something to be proud of. Heck! It doesn?t even recognize his mother-tongue. For him, Nepal is either a failed state already or becoming one soon. Nepal does not need a total shake up, but certain things need to be changed so that my group, or other minority group feel at home. A forced Hindu-Nepali Speaking-Pahadiya Nation.
2. Group A?s Nepal: Their definition of Nepal is different than that of Parmednra?s. Whereas Parmendra sees himself as a victim of the system- and he has every reason to see himself as a victim- others see the people like Parmendra responsible for all the mess. For them, the nation was working fine because they had all the rights in the world, enter Parmendra like people and the Maoists, and the whole nation is falling apart. So the Maoists and the ethnic politics are leading the state towards failure. A nation being troubled by the Maoists and the people who support them.
3. Group B?s Nepal: Something was wrong from the very beginning, but it wasn?t terrible. Nepal still has some hopes. It hasn?t degenerated to the state of Lebanon in the 80?s, or Rwanda, Sieera Leone, Haiti of the 90s. So, nobody needs to get angry. Things can be worked out by working together, peacefully. The change in the system at this point, or at this chaotic stage, means creating more chaos/anarchy. Changes can be achieved from within the system. There?s no need for a new system. A nation that ignored certain problems for long. Of course there are problems but that doesn?t mean we should just replace the system with something else. Solutions should come from the existing system.
4. Group C?s Nepal: Everything was wrong from the very beginning. What we are seeing now is the fruition of peoples? anger that was suppressed for more than 200 years. One group always dominated the country whereas others never had any real political power. Democracy was letting the same elite group control the country in a more internationally respected disguise. So what the Maoists might be wrong in the ways, but they are not wrong in their demands. So there has to be a change. Everything has to be changed and a new Nepal should be built from the scratch. A minority dominated nation; a nation that didn?t provide its every citizen with equal economic, social and political opportunities. A nation that never solved its political-social-economic problems, or even seriously thought about those, it just put a blanket on those, and created the NTB poster image Nepal.
5. Group D?s Nepal: What the hell you are talking about? There is no big problem. I am not affected. My family is not affected. And they won?t be affected. So why change? Who needs change? And the change for what? For this group, Nepal is still the same Nepal Tourism Board?s poster of a smiling kid with Everest in the background.
There could be many more Nepals. A Tharu Nepal, a UML Nepal, a RPP Nepal, a Ashu Nepal, a Isolated Freak Nepal, a dada giri Nepal, and so on. See the problem is, we don?t even have a common consensus on Nepal. And we are talking what needs to be done. I find this really funny. This division in Nepal is responsible for what?s happening in Nepal today. Thanks god- Pashupatinath baba ko jay hos- it still hasn?t blown out of proportion. But if we still keep on having the divisions, soon we will be having an all out war of all against all.
isolated freak Posted on 01-13-05 7:07 AM Reply | Notify Admin
f you go over the points, none of the points are either entirely wrong or right. What we need to understand at this point is: Nepal's Levantine spirit is already a history, and each and every Nepali carries in his heart and head his/her own version of Nepal and what needs to be done. This is a very VERY dangerous scenario. Exactly this different concepts of the nation was responsible for the Lebananese civil war in the 80s. Nobody even thought that the Middle-Eastern France will one day will have a civil war, but it did and which just ruined it. I'll say, we should learn from the Lebananese example and before the Indian soldiers come knocking on our door (Just as Israel did in Lebanon. No nation wants a failed state in its backyard-NIMBY), our own Druse, Phalangists, Shiites and others need to sit down and talk.
Jai hos Friedman dai ko.
The Nepal-definition model+ Lebanon's history comes from "From Beirut to Jerusalem". A wonderful book, read it, when you guys have time.
isolated freak Posted on 01-13-05 7:11 AM Reply | Notify Admin
evantine spirit =w what created lebanon...the spirit of "secularism" and unity in diversity, and diversity in unity spirit. Just as our modern Nepal (post2007 saal) was built on a premise that all ethnic groups are equal and will enjoy equal rights.
isolated freak Posted on 01-13-05 7:11 AM Reply | Notify Admin
evantine spirit =w what created lebanon...the spirit of "secularism" and unity in diversity, and diversity in unity spirit. Just as our modern Nepal (post2007 saal) was built on a premise that all ethnic groups are equal and will enjoy equal rights.
isolated freak Posted on 01-13-05 7:29 AM Reply | Notify Admin
et me add some more Nepal here: A Tamang Nepal, A Sherpa Nepal, A College-Graduate Nepal, A Bhariya Nepal, A Maoist Nepal, A Professor Nepal, A Writer Nepal.. what else... A Lady Croft Nepal :-), A Sajha.com Nepal, A Nepalhomepage.com Nepal...
There are many Nepal within Nepal. The problem is each and every Nepali thinks that it's only him/her who is right and who has understood Nepal. Isn't that extrimism? So Nepal;'s biggest problem now along with the Maist problem is the rise of extrimism in all (all nepalese) of us.
Dada_Giri Posted on 01-13-05 7:36 AM Reply | Notify Admin
F Bro!
ल ल ! मैले तपाईवको कुराबाट के बुझेँ भन्दा,
तपाईँले कालो चस्मा लगाएर नेपाल हेर्नुस् कालो देखिन्छ, पहेँलो लगाएर हेर्दा पहेँलो ... ...
एउटा किताब हेरेर अनि त्यही कुरा सहि भन्दै हिँडेर पनि त भएन न। कि कसो ब्रो?
मेरो भन्नु धेरै छ म भोलि लेख्छु, यहाँ अहिले रात पर्यो।
ल
वांग् आन्!
isolated freak Posted on 01-13-05 7:41 AM Reply | Notify Admin
ada giri
thik bhannu bhayo. yaha ko aru pani buichar sunna paun..
Gaandmarwaa Posted on 01-13-05 7:44 AM Reply | Notify Admin
'all need to write so everyone can understand. what is all this jibberish ?
IndisGuise Posted on 01-13-05 7:50 AM Reply | Notify Admin
"कसैले अन्याय र अत्याचार सहन नसकेर आफ्नो हक अधिकारको लागि छातीमा गोली थाप्न तयार भएकाहरुलाई दाबाउन एकजुट हुन आग्रह गर्छ बने त्यसलाई पनि समयले माफि दिने छैन। "
Dada giri bro,
Manchu ma anyaye atyachar bhayeko cha. Doshi haru tyai ek jhumro ma ajai surakchit cha. Faleko cha fapeko cha, ajai pani muskurakai cha. Ke ti chati ma goli thapna tayar hune haru le tyo jhumro lai kehi garne ateko cha? Ke uni harule dekheka chainan nirdosh ra mehenati sadharan janta lai marera kasaile afu mathi bhayeko anyaye lai dhall banayera afno ghrina lagdo kukartabye lai justify garna mildaina bhanera.
Ke afno haat katyo bhanera, chimeki lai goli thokera, swastha karmi haru usko haat ko lagi ausadi chado lera aucha bhanne manabriti sahi ho??
There is no justification for the heinous crimes these SO CALLED SUFFERES ( i presume we can safely term them as one, esp. after making others suffer million times more) are committing. Agreed reforms are needed. System needs at the least - restatement, at best - total change. But, how can ANYONE, absolutely ANYONE justify the violent, inhuman and unfathomable violation of morality?????
Aru kura tyastai ho... galti bhayeko cha... tara sachaune bato sahi bhayena ki. Often, we set our eyes on the destination exclusively; unheeding, we travel through the water, better left unchartered. Malai ta yestai bhayeko bhan parcha.
Jai Nepal,
IndiaGuise :(
isolated freak Posted on 01-13-05 8:57 AM Reply | Notify Admin
एउटा किताब हेरेर अनि त्यही कुरा सहि भन्दै हिँडेर पनि त भएन न। कि कसो ब्रो? ]
what you say is right. howeer, in humanities and social scineces, sometimes you tend to borrow your framework of analysis from one book- or even a film! For example, Akira Kurosawa's movie The Roshoman Gate has been used by many social scientists/historians to explain different issues. If you read the New York Times Bestseller, The Rape of Nanking, Iris Chang follows the Kurasawa model. Heshang's (a TV serial in China in the early 90s) model has been used by many social scientists to explain China. I borrowed Friedman's model. Just borrowing a model does not necessarily mean that you just read that one book. You borrow the model from one source, and explain and analyze those based on other books+ your own ideas. I could have not mentioned the source of the model and you would have never known. However, being against plagarism (thanks to the strict-est honor code of my alma-matar in a small town America), even the thought of not-citing my sources scares the hell out of me. So if you read my postings from the past, I have always included the sources/names for further reading.
Deep Posted on 01-13-05 9:20 AM Reply | Notify Admin
eri hamra gaam ko mukh.khe samasya bhanya chainjo ke hola jasto lagna thalyo malai aaj byan dekhi bhaneni---yessima chor ko ko hun? ko ko hun chor? jammai arko tira aaula dekhaune matrai chhan---astinai euta aako thyo pokhara tira ho kyara "ma ho euta chor samatera thuna malai bhandai" tara aru ta yo daka sankechha bhanera thunne sunne ta kata ho kata bhudi bokya laati le sukulgunda lai bolauda jasari gunda tarkinchha ni ho tersari tarekera para para tira lage kurai nasuni---
jo sanga kuro garyo arko lai chor bhanchha--ma ni aru lai ni chor bhanchhu---afulai ma jasto sajjan aru dherai chhainan jasto lagchha--ke garne---kun kun le malai chor bhanda hun---aba yasari chorai patta lagna aatena ke garera chori nirmul parne ho?
la yo kuro yastai ho --baru tyo bhawana lai nare (narendra) chor le bich.ma aayera mandali hani ra chha---maile side dya ahile dekhi haina bhawana lai---huna ta bhawanale ni side nadya ta haina---tara oo arko side ma ani ma chai yo side ma---bicha.ma ta uhi--hami nadika dui kina hamro milan asambhava chha---well nadi suke ta milan hunthyo pani hola tara nadi ta jhan jhan urlera kinara katya katyai chha gathe!
isolated freak Posted on 01-13-05 9:24 AM Reply | Notify Admin
eep bro- ekdam thik bhannu bhayo. maile bhanan khojeko pani tyahi ho. sabaile afno "position" (a combination of ideology ra "made up" shared experience) ko aadhar ma aru lai chor dekhna thaley.. chor le ni arko lai chor dekhna thalyo.. sabai ko "victim" ra "blaming" mentality bhayo, yesle garda samasya samadhan huna nasakeko.
Gaandmarwaa Posted on 01-13-05 9:42 AM Reply | Notify Admin
IBBERISH yantanawa ke ho ho pha hun jino wa ti ka hawa popo ha ki ko da ma ni
Deep Posted on 01-13-05 9:43 AM Reply | Notify Admin
F bro,
ma ni bela bela kuro lyamchhu ke---yasai ma thik aru bethik bhanya ho ra---
aba tyo pardesh ma yasso naranchaur ni samjhim hai ta ek raund--
tya nagpokhari aghi saikal bhadama dinthyo ni ke ta---tya bata saikal bhadama lyaye ekdin tara saikal chadna janya thiyena---saikal feri kasto beiman hudo re chha bhane chadna najanne lai doryauna pani didaina re chha--kahile yata ghandryang gardai pachharinchha ta kahile uta. balla balla nandi pachadi ta puryako thiye feri pachhariyo saikal euta dhungo mathi--ma pani saikal ladna nadine bhako saikal sangai ram ram...saikal ko chain ghumchha ni agadi daati ma ho tyo daati le mero pidaula hai daarechha ghwappai---janjeer ni fuskyo ---aaiya aath.tha gardai oothe ra saikal oothaudai thiye ghuda kamera dharma chhadyo--saikal feri dyangai-- paidal bange chha bro-- dohoro paidal nachalne bho---aba marena? saikal ni sikiyena ulto sadde saikal ni bigariyo---aba saikal dine lai ke bhanne? mero ta galti ke thiyo ra? saikal chadne bhanya ta ho ni--yessima saikalai beiman re chha---aru lai bhane liyera sururu jaane malai tyasari ghaite pardini?
hamro gam ko democracyle tyo ghatana samjhuchha malai bela belama---
isolated freak Posted on 01-13-05 9:53 AM Reply | Notify Admin
ahah deep bro! deep bro maile pani tyahi dhunge dhara agadi ko cycle pasal bata 2 rupiya bhada ma cycle liyera tyahi nandi keshar ko chaur ma sikeko... ladnu kati ladiyo.. pahilo choti cycle chalayera ek fanka naya bato lagayera ghar ma jaada ta chaati nanglo bhanda thulo bhathyo.. k garnu, narayan chaur ni bigare kangressi-communist sai baba bhakta harule.. ahile ta jhyamma parkhal layera sai baba ko bhajan matra gaudai baschan...tyo hridaya raj haluwai sahuji ko pasal pani banda bhayo jasto cha... aaba purano business banki bhaneko tyahi Sayami dai ko pharmacy-
ani maile deep bro le bela bela ma kura nlayaune bhaneko hoina.. lyaunu huncha, praya jaso lyaunu huncha..
Nepe Posted on 01-13-05 7:35 PM Reply | Notify Admin
दादागिरीजी, मलाई सम्बोधन गर्नु भा पछिल्ला पोस्टीङमा केही कुरा आग्राका र गाग्राका जस्ता पनि भए भने बाँकी तपाईका प्रश्नहरुले गहन र बृहद उत्तरको अधिकार राख्तछन् । सबै प्रश्नको सन्तोषजनक उत्तर मसँग अवश्य छैन । तर गणतन्त्रसंग जोडिएका सबालहरुको बारेमा मेरो व्यक्तिगत विचारहरु जरुर राख्नेछु, तपाई सोध्दै जानुहोस् ।
छुवाछुत सामाजिक बिमारी हुनुसंगै मनोवैज्ञानिक बिमारी पनि हो । यसको उपचार राजनैतिक र शैक्षिक दुबै तहमा हुनुपर्छ । गणतन्त्रले छुवाछुत चट्टै निको अवश्य पार्ने होईन । तर एक उच्च ठकुरी जातका परिवारका जेठा छोरा मात्र राज्यको सर्वोच्च सम्माननिय व्यक्ति हुन पाउछ भन्ने मान्यतालाई टुँडिखेलमा खाल्डै खनेर पुरिदिएपछि अर्थात जुन जातको मान्छेले पनि चुनाव जितेर श्रीपेज पहिरिन पाउँछ (प्रतिकात्मक अर्थमा) भन्ने मान्यता स्थापना भएपछि त्यो बिमारीको उपचार पक्कै बढी सजिलो हुन्छ जस्तो लाग्छ मलाई ।
Nepe Posted on 01-13-05 7:36 PM Reply | Notify Admin
तर मेरो बहस छुवाछुत व्यवहारबाट हटाउने कुरामा सिमित थिएन । वृहद सामाजिक न्यायको मान्यतालाई शासकको निगाह र goodwill को रुपमा हैन हरेक जनजाती, हरेक क्षेत्र, हरेक धर्म, हरेक वर्ग र हरेक विविधताको अधिकारको रुपमा र पाखण्डरहित (राजतन्त्र भित्रको समानता एक पाखण्ड हो) तरिकाले स्थापना गरेसी पर्ने फरकको कुरा गरेको हुँ । अझ उता तपाईले राजतन्त्रले उत्तानो टाङ लाएसी जातजातीहरु हानाहान गरेर देश टुकुर्याउने हुन् कि भन्ने आशयको शंशय व्यक्त गर्नु भएको हो कि (Isolated Freak जस्ता राजावादी alarmists हरुको कुरा सुनी) भनेर गणतन्त्रले त जनजातिय एकताको एकमात्र दिगो आधार, समानता को मान्यता, स्थापना गरेर एकतालाई अझ बढी सम्भव बनाउछ भनेर पाण्डित्याँई छाँटेको हुँ मैले । मैले hypothetical कुरा गरेको भन्नुहुन्छ भने, गणतन्त्र नआउन्जेल गणतन्त्रको कुरा हाईपोथेसिस नभए "लु हेर् देखिस्" हुन्छ कि क्या हो ?
Nepe Posted on 01-13-05 7:36 PM Reply | Notify Admin
निस्क्रिय राजतन्त्र सहितको प्रजातन्त्र को कुरा गरेर तपाईले एउटा चाखको बहस छेड्नु भो । मलाई आउनै बाँकी गणतन्त्रको कुरा गर्दा hypothetical term मा गर्छ भनेर निको नमान्ने, तपाई भने आएर पनि myth साबित भैसक्या कुरालाई ठाडै देख्या नदेख्यै गरेर अझै hypothetical कुरा गर्ने ? ४६ साल अघि र पछिका केही वर्ष सम्म भए पनि रिजल्ट देखिनै बाँकी निस्क्रिय राजतन्त्र सहितको प्रजातन्त्र बारे hypothetical कुरा गरे नाई बुढाले भन्नुहुन्थ्यो । अब यत्ना वर्ष गर्न नसक्या कुन चै चमत्कार गर्न बाँकी छ लौ यो hypothetical नै सही निस्क्रिय राजतन्त्र सहितको प्रजातन्त्रले ?
नेपालाँ राजतन्त्र निस्कृय देखिन चै सक्छ हुन चै सक्तैन । गएका डेढ दशके experiment को conclusion त्यै हो । राजाले काम गर्ने भनेकै निस्कृय देखिएर गर्ने हो । वीरेन्द्र निस्कृय देखिएर पनि उसका र उसका बाउको बिरासतका सारा पुराना कुरालाई बेरुजु, बेउजुरयोग्य र सुरक्षित राख्न सके । हाम्रा केही ग्वाँच केटाहरुको भ्रमको विपरित वीरेन्द्रले प्रजातन्त्रलाई कहिले पनि रुचाएनन् । ज्ञानेन्द्र त पुरै बाउको बिंडो थाम्न कम्मर कसेर लागेको छ । आशु तिवारीको राजा र प्रजा को एकताको आव्हान एसबेला उसलाई अति खाँचो छ । आशुले ढिलोचाँडो गोरखा दक्षिण बाहु पाएनन् भने मलाई उदेक लाग्नेछ
Nepe Posted on 01-13-05 7:38 PM Reply | Notify Admin
राजनैतिक पार्टीहरु र राजाको अर्धघोषित साझा राजसत्ताको हाम्रो मोडेल त्यस्तो हुन पुग्यो जस्तो अल्छी र कामुक दुई लोग्नेहरुबीच एउटा निरिह साझा पत्नीको । पाण्डवहरुको घराँ त्यो मोडेल सफलतापूर्वक चल्यो होला । नेपालाँ फेल खायो । यो फेल खाको कुरा denial गरि बस्दा नै माओवादी यसरी ह्वात्त बढ्न सक्या हुन् । माओवादीहरु उनिहरुको सकारात्मक कारणले बलिया भएका होईनन्, हाम्रा नकारात्मक कारणले बलिया भएका हुन् । हामीले राजालाई गद्दिमा राखेर निस्कृय पार्न नसकेको कुरा एक र राजा र पार्टीहरुको साझा पत्नीवारी चल्न नसकेको कुरा दुई लाई ईमान्दारीका साथ admit नगरीकन न त माओवादीलाई परास्त गर्न सक्नेछौं न त देशलाई चाहिएको व्यापक परिवर्तन् / सुधारहरु नै थाल्न सक्छम् । राजा र प्रजाको एकताद्वारा माओवादीलाई खतम गर्ने आशुका कुरा गँजडी hypothesis हुन्, at best. In reality, जुन म व्याख्या गरुँला अलि पछि, फटाहा कुरा हो एकताको कुरा ।
Nepe Posted on 01-13-05 7:39 PM Reply | Notify Admin
तपाईले गाँउ फर्क को कुरा निकाल्नु भो । तपाईको point बुझिएन तर जे भए नि त्यो माटो सुहाउदो पन्चैती पर्जातन्त्रको महान गाईजात्रामा पुगेर टुङ्गियो । शहरबाट सुकिलो लुगा लगार आका मान्छेले हाम्रा गाम्का पर्धान, उपपर्धान, वडा सदस्से मनोनयन गरेर फर्कन्थे सर्वसम्मती गरेको बनेर । राजमुटुको, राजमुकुट हो क्यारे, त्यस्को बारेमा दिन्थे लामा लामा लेक्चर गाम्लेहरुलाई, अरास्टे तत्व भन्ने भूत चिन्छम् भन्थे, तर नाम चाही बताउदैनथे । गजबको समय थियो त्यो ।
शान्तिक्षेत्रको कुरा । त्यो चाही वीरेन्द्रको एउटा ठूलै काम हो । बिहेको जन्तीबाख्रो खान आका पाम्नालाई के भनुँ के भनुँ भएर "मेरा गोबरग्वाँच रैतिहरुको कानमा मीठो सुनिने एउटा नाम राख्न परो, यसलाई शान्ति क्षेत्र भन्द् याओन भाई" भन्या के थे, भटाभट भैहाल्चनि किन नभन्थेम र भन्न थाली हाले पाउनाहरु । the rest is history, as they say.
हाम्रा भारतिय मित्र, जिज्ञासु भनम् कि छुसी, चाही ले सोधेर मरे ? क्या हो यो शान्ति क्षेत्र भन्या ? अगर ये सिरिफ नाम है तो नाम मे क्या रक्खा है ? बस् खेल खत्तम ।
आशुका राजा र प्रजा का एकता को गँजडी गफ को बारेमा अलि पछि ॥
swaati thapa Posted on 01-13-05 8:02 PM Reply | Notify Admin
वृहद सामाजिक न्यायको मान्यतालाई शासकको निगाह र goodwill को रुपमा हैन हरेक जनजाती, हरेक क्षेत्र, हरेक धर्म, हरेक वर्ग र हरेक विविधताको अधिकारको रुपमा र पाखण्डरहित (राजतन्त्र भित्रको समानता एक पाखण्ड हो) तरिकाले स्थापना गरेसी पर्ने फरकको कुरा गरेको हुँ । अझ उता तपाईले राजतन्त्रले उत्तानो टाङ लाएसी जातजातीहरु हानाहान गरेर देश टुकुर्याउने हुन् कि भन्ने आशयको शंशय व्यक्त गर्नु भएको हो कि (Isolated Freak जस्ता राजावादी alarmists हरुको कुरा सुनी) भनेर गणतन्त्रले त जनजातिय एकताको एकमात्र दिगो आधार, समानता को मान्यता, स्थापना गरेर एकतालाई अझ बढी सम्भव बनाउछ भनेर पाण्डित्याँई छाँटेको हुँ मैले ।
Dear Nepe dai, I am really impressed by ur Ganatantra related topics. My personal belief is aslo like urz, but i am just confused what u are trying to say in above para. Its not i am questioning u but its due to my lack of knowledge in nepali bhasa. Especially from line 4.
jira Posted on 01-13-05 8:14 PM Reply | Notify Admin
ba hai..tyo raaatantra ra mawutaantra ko kuro garera tyam kina khera phalnu haina...tyo bela samma ta haina ..2 sarko chilim salkincha ni haina...khantti kuro ta yo po ho ta..jhan aba ta wikin ni awuna layo...jaand ready banayera raakhnu cha..get set ready to go garnu parcha..ki kaso! tyo rajniti ta Nepal ma garni ni haina! hariyo dollar khalti ma kochera raastaprem alapyo bhaney ta paila ko ma jasto huncha pheri..paila paila ma ni tyastai thiye kyara..hamro jatayu guru lay ek sarko dera aankha kholdya mero ta...aba hai..tyo bichara hamro desh ta sarrai sojho ni haina! sabbailey pallai palo lattyawuni..baalgiri ko saikal jasto..jalley payo woosley kudawuni......aba alikata hommak ni garnu cha aaja..natra bholi byana aachi khancha class ma...INS lay ni malai dherrai padhawula jasto cha....status lay garda dactar nai banawula jasto cha..natra ke khana padhthie ni ma pani!
aba haina! yasto dui paisey kuro katti garni sootni belama....je bhayeni yastai ho .....dherrai pir lina hunna aba..banchha bistarrai Nepal..Amrika jasto huncha ek din..Japan lai khai dincha babbai...heri mattai baschhu ke ma chai....girija lay baru dekhna pawuni ho ki napawuni ho...chaamrya dekhera ta dekhla jasto chhant lyai recha..tyo bajjey lay ni heros na ek phera...
herdai jaam hai..belabela yasto chhanda na chhant ko kuro gari rana parcha ke bela belan...sakkali kuro ta yo po ho ta gaanthey! kyarnu tyasto raaniti kuro garera!!!!!
Nepe Posted on 01-13-05 9:02 PM Reply | Notify Admin
wati,
Unity based on the principle of equality as a right rather than as someone's mercy is more sustainable भन्न खोजेको । धन्यवाद छ है प्रोत्साहनको लागि ।
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सानो त्रुटी सुधार:
शान्ति क्षेत्र को कुरा जन्ती अगाडी हैन coronation का निम्तालु अगाडी भा हो ।
ashu Posted on 01-13-05 9:21 PM Reply | Notify Admin
epe wrote:
"आशुले ढिलोचाँडो गोरखा दक्षिण बाहु पाएनन् भने मलाई उदेक लाग्नेछ"
Very funny, Nepe, very funny.
And also very cheap.
You do display a classic either-or Nepali communist mentality, which goes like this. If someone dares disagree with you or even dares question your thoughts or is ambivalent about them, then you go all out to paint that person as a stooge of some reactionary element. You then go on to repeat lies about that person so many times openly and publicly that those lies can be mistaken for the truth.
Nice try, Nepe.
But it won't work in my case.
I remain too independent to be a card-carrying member of any political sect.
While you are quick to make public (by now utterly silly) judgements about me, this is what I don't understand about you: For all your talks about gana-tantra, then what the hell are you doing in DC at this 40-plus age, obviously bored with beakers and titrations?
A quick search in databases does NOT establish you as a prolific or even remotely interesting scientific figure in any sense. So one can safely assume that other than
being just another apparatchik in a scientific building filled with 1000s of science PhDs, the existential question of "what should do I do with my life?" (well explored in Po Bronson's book of that same title) must haunt you for days, no?
Sure, your job may be in molecular biology, but your passion clearly lies in molecular politics. And who do you fancy yourself as-- some sort of Nepali Ayatollah, waiting to return to Nepal to ecstatic public acclaim after the fall of the Shah of Nepal? Give me a break.
Meantime, why not put your money where your mouth is, and return to Nepal and put yourself in harm's way to throw out the monarchy you so detest?
I mean, in terms of circumstances, if this is not an opportune time for you to excite Nepalis on the sadak of Nepal against the monarchy, when is?
But, realistically, you can't do any of that, can you?
Now or ever.
You are happy outsourcing your role to others in Nepal, while you enjoy the comfy life
in the US, hoin ta?
That is why, Nepe, I suspect that behind your bluster and cyber-bravado, you are basically a coward who fears uncertainties and ambiguities and the unknowns of real
life (or for that matter, of scientific research) and seeks solace in the kind of politics that offers you nothing but clear-cut certainties. Kinda like that the Maoists, in a different way.
That is why, you are atavistically and viscerally unable to even accept the possibility that there may well be OTHER ideas out there that do not match your own.
But you can't say any of this openly, and your weapon of choice is first try to co-opt others by flattering them, and when flattery doesn't work, then go all out to to ridicule others and deride them by hurling outlandish charges at them so that you can prop yourself up, hoina ta?
After all, not too long ago, with words of flattery, you were saying that you were confident that I, Ashu too, would someday turn into a hard-core republican. Now that
I continue to not be on your side, you turn nasty.
Isn't that so, Nepe-kazi?
Fortunately, there is plenty of room on Sajha for you as there is for others who may well think different from you on issues. And so it goes.
Finally, sure, my ideas are may well be "गँजडी गफ" to you, but let it be stated that you have NOT shown how they are indeed गँजडी गफ. As anyone who knows basic science knows, assertions are not proofs or evidence.
oohi
ashu
Pade_Queen_no.1 Posted on 01-13-05 9:56 PM Reply | Notify Admin
epe and especially this for u Ashu,
What type of people you both are - yahi ho educated, mature manche ko kaida. It's utterly embarassing the way both you guys behave most of the time at sajha, always trying to get at each other's throat. As always, the thread customarily starts as an innocuous vibrant discussion, then finally it boils down to both of you exchanging heated arguments, attacking each other, and ripping each other apart with vengence at personal level.
Tolerence ek thopa pani chaina (1 to 10 ko tolerance level scale ma - ASHU has 0 tolerance level , while Nepe scores 3) . Sajha jasto public forum ma aera afnu dhoti kina kholeko hola. Public perception, impression kasto huncha, socheko cha?
Incognito aera sajha ma lekhe ta thik thiyo ni.
ashu Posted on 01-13-05 10:09 PM Reply | Notify Admin
ell, PQ No. 1,
Thank you for your concern.
But let's grow up, shall we? Rest assured that both Nepe and I are big boys, and I am sure that each is capable of handling this sort of disagreements of opinions in ways he sees best. A clash of opinions, however vehemently expressed, need not frighten you or anyone else.
If nothing else, be entertained.
oohi
ashu
nispaksha Posted on 01-13-05 10:44 PM Reply | Notify Admin
reat show !
Pade_Queen_no.1 Posted on 01-13-05 11:00 PM Reply | Notify Admin
"A clash of opinions"
Should I say clash of titanic egos and hubris?
"If nothing else, be entertained."
I don't see any entertaining stuffs here.
ashu Posted on 01-14-05 12:08 AM Reply | Notify Admin
ispaksha,
Theory is one thing, but practice is another, especially in politics.
I remain somewhat of a pragmatist, and that is why I have never been certain about republicanism for Nepal at this time while the Maoists are killing people and destroying infrastructure.
My "crime" was to once admit on Sajha that I was, at best, ambivalent about this whole notion of republicanism.
But Nepe, who expected an easy approval from all and easy rounds of wah-wah for his manifesto, was furious at my professed ambivalence.
And let me say that my ambivalence stems NOT out of any love for the Palace (as Nepe mistakenly and repeatedly claims) but out of my disappointment with the political parties' repeated failures to rein in the king when there were opportunities to do so.
Sure, I'd like to believe in the poitical parties. But when I see them bungling even on small matters, and unable to get their act together (while Nepal is turning into a killing field, thanks to both the army and the Maoists) I do have a hard time visualising them
as the ones who can really go all out to throw out the King and who really have the
best interests of the people they are supposed to represent at heart.
Seeing how the fights within Koirala dynasty is playing out, it does make me wonder whether all we will see is the mere eplacement of the Shahs with the Koiralas!
Yes, as a libertarian, I do find the notion of monarchy quite outdated and do not buy
the usual pro-monarch arguments that the likes of Mohammed Mohsin and others offer.
But it is at this cross-road of Monarhy, Maoists and Political Parties, I, for one, have decided that the greatest threat to Nepal, the greatest problem in Nepal NOW is that
of the Maoists who threaten ALL our liberties.
The king and the parties were with us before 1996. The King and the parties had had their clashes in 1990 too. If the King takes over the country entirely, he will be writing his own epitaph. I am sure he knows this. The parties, at this time, CANNOT take over the entire country. I am sure they know this too.
Their common enemy is the Maoists.
Maoists have hijacked the agenda of political parties and used that agenda to destructive ends, and political parties should now focus their enegy to reclaim their agenda back from the Maoists.
And the further the two forces (King and political parties) get cut off from the goal of finishing or defanging their common enemy, the more they just end up tearing at one
another -- like they have been doing and thereby NOT serving Nepal's interests.
Solution?
Here, I support Deuba's intention to go for the elections, which will be difficult to stage, yes; but NOT impossible.
My proposal is: Let's invite all sorts of international observers so that Deuba or the King's forces will not get to stage a sham election, as political parties fear. Look, we have to take some risks in these risky times. This is where civil society ko genuine activism is needed to push the elections. If the Maoists create problems, then, they should further exposed as terrorists to the world community.
After finishing the elections, let the new elected government take over and let it make its decisions as to what it next wants to do re: the powers of the King and so forth. If the King gets clever and tries to do his own thig, then, let's hope that the elected reps will have enough cojones to stamp their feet to decide on behalf of the janata.
My point is that: Until we get out of this terrible fix, this strange impasse, and take the country forward, all talks about republicamism and so forth are mere distractions that only play into the hands of the Maosts.
As for Sangraula's piece, it's ironic that in the very parties he had exalted last spring, he now finds faults that alienated people of Kathmandu. My point: Those faults were there with the parties then as they are with them now. Good that Sangraula finally woke up to that realisation.
oohi
ashu
nispaksha Posted on 01-14-05 1:15 AM Reply | Notify Admin
shu ji,
I can see your point. Yet, your argument appears to have been shaped more by what-should-be than by what-will-be way of thinking. The underlying currents in Nepalese political domain indicate that republicanism is not that distant. At this stage, Nepali society cannot reject republicanism just on the ground that it is one of the Maoist?s demands. If you want to defeat Maoism, even from taking a pragmatic standpoint, republicanism is more legitimate and powerful political instrument than the coalition of convenience among groups preferring status quo.
Re Sangrula?s piece, what I understood is that he finds problem with agitating party?s agenda in terms of their inability to clearly state that they are there for a republican movement.
nispaksha
ashu Posted on 01-14-05 2:03 AM Reply | Notify Admin
ispaksha,
Talking about underlying currents is not helpful, because human beings being human beings will always find their PREFERRED positions as the representative of the so-called undercurrents whether or not that's true in reality.
I mean, if we are talking about underlying currents, then, let's be honest to say that there are underlying currents for every possibility in Nepal: the currents for King's taking over absolutely are there, and so are the the currents for the Maoists' taking over totally, and so on and on.
That said, I have no trouble accepting that my ideas -- projected into the future -- are hypothesis, yet to be borne out by realities.
But by the same token, let's also think of the republican agenda as just another hypothesis, yet to be borne out by realities, and treat it as such.
[My challenge to Nepe is that if he really thinks that it such an important agenda, then he should head back and excite the Nepalis doing the andolan on the sadak. Anything less is only a suburban lament.]
You see, what I don't understand is: Why is it that when it comes to republicanism,
you guys are so CERTAIN about it EVEN when the evidence on the ground is mixed
at best? Because you can somehow intuit the clear-cut underlying currents in the favor of republicanism? At this rate, you might as well hire a Ratna park ko suga-jyotisi.
As for Sangraula: Parties can barely walk. We've seen them stumble so many times.
Now he expects them to run. Sangraula changed his tune to scold the parties -- an admission that they goofed up. This is quite a change from his hagiographic workship of the parties last spring when they were no different.
oohi
ashu
GP Posted on 01-14-05 6:17 AM Reply | Notify Admin
ell said Ashu, especially, on Nepe.
I liked the following statements and they are the truth on Nepe.
1. Very funny, Nepe, very funny. And also very cheap.
2. You do display a classic either-or Nepali communist mentality, which goes like this. If someone dares disagree with you or even dares question your thoughts or is ambivalent about them, then you go all out to paint that person as a stooge of some reactionary element. You then go on to repeat lies about that person so many times openly and publicly that those lies can be mistaken for the truth.
(Nepe is very fast in calling names and assigning adjectives. An example of hardline communists). Oh yes, he is "fact lover", as he himself said. He supports the idea of
"figures don'd lie, liars lie the figures", and he filters out the figures that does not
suit his need. As he is a great researchers playing with beakers and titrations for
last 3 decades.
3. While you are quick to make public (by now utterly silly) judgements about me, this is what I don't understand about you: For all your talks about gana-tantra, then what the hell are you doing in DC at this 40-plus age, obviously bored with beakers and titrations?
[Well said here, ashu. He is now carrying placard in front Capitol Hill and publishing that
2 dozen as hundres of Nepalis in front pages of Kantipur / Kathmandu post. Thats his lusture on facts and figures.]
4. A quick search in databases does NOT establish you as a prolific or even remotely interesting scientific figure in any sense. So one can safely assume that other than
being just another apparatchik in a scientific building filled with 1000s of science PhDs, the existential question of "what should do I do with my life?" (well explored in Po Bronson's book of that same title) must haunt you for days, no?
[Again, well said. He talks of republican while in DC. A friend of mine who was
Maoist supporter and was working in Japan, used to send major part of his salary
to his party in Nepal and went to Nepal to take part in that move, well, I may or
may not like his affliation with a wrong party, but, he showed his dedication. Nepe
does not miss any chance to meet Royalist Govt. 's senior ministers when they
visit DC.... what a shame. Well, he has his excuses. He knows how to find excuses.]
5. Sure, your job may be in molecular biology, but your passion clearly lies in molecular politics. And who do you fancy yourself as-- some sort of Nepali Ayatollah, waiting to return to Nepal to ecstatic public acclaim after the fall of the Shah of Nepal? Give me a break.
Meantime, why not put your money where your mouth is, and return to Nepal and put yourself in harm's way to throw out the monarchy you so detest?
I mean, in terms of circumstances, if this is not an opportune time for you to excite Nepalis on the sadak of Nepal against the monarchy, when is?
But, realistically, you can't do any of that, can you?
Now or ever.
{Well said}
6. You are happy outsourcing your role to others in Nepal, while you enjoy the comfy life in the US, hoin ta?
That is why, Nepe, I suspect that behind your bluster and cyber-bravado, you are basically a coward who fears uncertainties and ambiguities and the unknowns of real
life (or for that matter, of scientific research) and seeks solace in the kind of politics that offers you nothing but clear-cut certainties. Kinda like that the Maoists, in a different way.
[true]
7. That is why, you are atavistically and viscerally unable to even accept the possibility that there may well be OTHER ideas out there that do not match your own.
[He is hard liner communist based on his writings for last several years, he stamps
peoples with adjectives their ideas don't agree with him or are not defendable
from his standpoint].
8. But you can't say any of this openly, and your weapon of choice is first try to co-opt others by flattering them, and when flattery doesn't work, then go all out to to ridicule others and deride them by hurling outlandish charges at them so that you can prop yourself up, hoina ta?
[Yes, he does first flatter them try to intimidate and when fails then he uses
fire arms of words. Nepe is terrible].
9. After all, not too long ago, with words of flattery, you were saying that you were confident that I, Ashu too, would someday turn into a hard-core republican. Now that
I continue to not be on your side, you turn nasty.
[Yeah, he wrote these words. You can find his words here in Sajha.]
10. Fortunately, there is plenty of room on Sajha for you as there is for others who may well think different from you on issues. And so it goes.
Finally, sure, my ideas are may well be "गँजडी गफ" to you, but let it be stated that you have NOT shown how they are indeed गँजडी गफ. As anyone who knows basic science knows, assertions are not proofs or evidence.
[good job, ashu. Some peoples might think that you do not have tolerance,
but in public debate when some peoples become too much personal, and just
don't keep silence that "I don't want to be personal", you have to defend
yourself and it was right to defend and you did very well. Otherwise, Nepe
would continue to think that these tricks will work. ]
GP
humjayega Posted on 01-14-05 7:03 AM Reply | Notify Admin
ear Nepe Dude,
Is there any carrying placard in front Capitol Hill and White House in near future?? Please let us know so that I can also join...:-)
Dada_Giri Posted on 01-14-05 7:48 AM Reply | Notify Admin
ल, साथि हो तार्किक बहस चल्दै जाओस् र ऊ माथि नै एकजना मित्रले भनिसक्नु भो कि यसलाई ब्यक्तिगत आक्षेप, आरोप र प्रत्यारोपतिर भने नढालौँ। तार्किक बिभिन्ननतालाई सबैले स्विकार्नुपर्छ।
नेपेजीले छोडेर जानुभएका एक दुई मतहरुमा मेरो बिचार प्रस्ट पारौँ कि भन्ने जमर्को गर्दैछु:
>निस्क्रिय राजतन्त्र सहितको प्रजातन्त्र को कुरा गरेर तपाईले एउटा चाखको बहस छेड्नु भो । >मलाई आउनै बाँकी गणतन्त्रको कुरा गर्दा hypothetical term मा गर्छ भनेर निको नमान्ने, >तपाई भने आएर पनि myth साबित भैसक्या कुरालाई ठाडै देख्या नदेख्यै गरेर अझै >hypothetical कुरा गर्ने ?
४६ सालपछिको नेपालको राजतन्त्रलाई निस्कृय राजतन्त्र भन्न मिल्दैन । किनभने
१। नेपाली सेनाहरु साही सेनाकै रुपमा चल्ने र राजाको हुकुम पालन गर्ने ब्यबस्था कायमै थियो र छ पनि। जसले गर्दा राजालाई मुढेबलको सकृय राजामै प्रतिस्थापन गरिएको थियो र छ पनि।
२। संसदको माथिल्लो सदन लगायत बिभिन्न ठाउँमा राजाको स्वबिबेकले नियुक्त र बर्खास्त गर्न पाउने पदहरु आरक्षण गरिएका थिए र छन् पनि। यी त भए उदाहरण मात्र ।
Dada_Giri Posted on 01-14-05 7:49 AM Reply | Notify Admin
त्यसैले यहाँ निस्कृय राजतन्त्र हेरेर पनि Myth भइसकेको भनेर जुन उदगार नेपेजीले छोड्नु भयो, त्यो नाम मात्रको निस्कृय राजतन्त्र हेर्न बाँकि नै छ। राजा नाम मात्रको राजा भएर बाँच्न तयार छ भने, उसको पनि नेपाल हो र उसको पनि जन्मभुमी हो । टुँडिखेलमा लगेर गाड्नै पर्छ भन्ने छैन।नागार्जुनमा गएर बस्न सक्छ र नागरिकहरुको सुख हेरर मर्न पाउनुपर्छ। नारायणहिटिमा अस्पताल बनाउन पाउनु पर्छ ।यो हो निस्कृय राजतन्त्र ।
राजा मानेर ढोग्नेलाई ढोग्न दिनुस्। सबैले एउटै बिचार राख्नुपर्छ भन्नु पो Hypothetical कुरा भो त।
गणतन्त्र आँफैमा Hypothetical कुरा हैन। आउन पनि सक्ला खाली कुरा के भने गणतन्त्रमा त सबै कुरा चट्, भन्ने कुरा चाहीँ Hypothetical ।
Dada_Giri Posted on 01-14-05 7:49 AM Reply | Notify Admin
मलाई यहाँनेर एउटा कुराको याद आयो कि, रत्नपार्कमा एउटा सुइच्यो बेच्ने केटाले भन्दै थियो, ल आयो ५ चै रुपियामा ल सुइचो आयो, गर्मिको सर्दिको रुखा खोकि निको पार्ने, ज्यान दुखेको निको पार्ने, टाउको दुखेको पिनास सन्चो पार्ने, थकाइ कम गर्ने, सप्पै कुरा निको हुने ल आयो ५चै रुपियाँमा सुइचो! आयो ल किनिहाल्नुस्।
यतिका कुरा निको हुने भनेसी त ५ रुपियाँको मुख हेर्ने कुरा भएन मैले पनि किने। पछि न रुखा न खोकि केहिपनि निको पार्दैन बा । कतै गणतन्त्रमा पनि यस्तै नहोला र?
प्रजातन्त्रमा पनि भन्या हैन सप्पै कुरा चट् हुन्छ, भनेर?
अगुल्टोले हान्या कुकुर बिजुलि चम्किँदा झस्किन्छ भन्या जस्तो त पक्कै हैन होला। अब गणतन्त्र आएपछि सप्पै कुरा छट भनेर बिस्वास गर्ने ठाउँ पनि छैन।
कारण तल भन्दै जान्छु।
Dada_Giri Posted on 01-14-05 7:56 AM Reply | Notify Admin
>तपाईले गाँउ फर्क को कुरा निकाल्नु भो । तपाईको point बुझिएन तर जे भए नि त्यो माटो >सुहाउदो पन्चैती पर्जातन्त्रको महान गाईजात्रामा पुगेर टुङ्गियो । शहरबाट सुकिलो लुगा >लगार आका मान्छेले हाम्रा गाम्का पर्धान, उपपर्धान, वडा सदस्से मनोनयन गरेर फर्कन्थे >सर्वसम्मती गरेको बनेर । राजमुटुको, राजमुकुट हो क्यारे, त्यस्को बारेमा दिन्थे लामा लामा >लेक्चर गाम्लेहरुलाई, अरास्टे तत्व भन्ने भूत चिन्छम् भन्थे, तर नाम चाही बताउदैनथे । >गजबको समय थियो त्यो ।
हो, अहिले गणतन्त्रबादीहरुले ७ कक्षामा पढ्ने १३ वर्षै नाबालक नाबाकिकारुलाई स्कुलबाट अपहरण गरी जगंलमा लगेर भोकै माओबादको मन्त्रहरु सुगाँलाई जस्तो रटाएको कुरा भने युग सुहाउँदो पकृया कसरी भन्ने? १३ वर्षको बच्चालाई , त्यो काँचो माटोलाई निहित स्वार्तपुर्तिका लागि गुन्द्रुक कावदे जस्तो गरेर सिकाउनु बन्दा त पन्चायतको पर्सिक्षणलाई प्रजातान्त्रिक र मयार्दित मान्न सकिएला जस्तो मलाई लाग्छ।
Dada_Giri Posted on 01-14-05 8:04 AM Reply | Notify Admin
>बिहेको जन्तीबाख्रो खान आका पाम्नालाई के भनुँ के भनुँ भएर "मेरा गोबरग्वाँच रैतिहरुको >कानमा मीठो सुनिने एउटा नाम राख्न परो, यसलाई शान्ति क्षेत्र भन्द् याओन भाई" भन्या के >थे, भटाभट भैहाल्चनि किन नभन्थेम र भन्न थाली हाले पाउनाहरु । the rest is history, as >they say.
बिहे जन्ति पास्नि या राज्यारोहण जे सुके होस्। यो बनेको कुटनिति हो। मिठो खाना बोलाको बेला भनेकै ठीक छ। त्यतिखेरका सल्लाहकारहरुले राजालई यति भएपनि बुद्दि दिएछन्। नेपालले स्विट्जरल्याण्डलाई ताकेको थियो तर संगत गुनाको पल! कुरा फरक के पर्यो भने स्विट्जरल्याण्ड युरोपमा तियो सफल हुन सक्यो, छिमेकीहरु पनि अलिकति उदार थिए होला, हामी परियो नेपाली । ऊ माथि दिप ब्रोले भन्या जस्तो युरोपियन साइकल नेपालीको हातमा पर्यो, ह्याण्डल गर्न सकेन। यसमा धत्तेरी गणतन्त्र मात्र भइदिया भे कस्तो मज्जा हुन्थ्यो भन्नु पर्ने कुरा केही पनि छैन जस्तो मलाई लाग्छ।
Dada_Giri Posted on 01-14-05 8:19 AM Reply | Notify Admin
तपाईँका उदगारबाट म उदाहरणको लागि @लिगंभेद@ भन्ने शब्द सापट लिन्छु।
छोरीळाई छोरा सरह बाबु आमाको सम्पत्ति दिने निस्कृय राजतन्त्रात्मक देशहरु त यहाँले पनि देख्नु भएकै होला, सुन्नुभएकै होला।
नेपलामा यस सम्बन्धी कानुनको मस्यौदा तयार भयो तर पास भएको छैन। कसले पास गर्ने हो? राजाले? हैन। तपाइँ हामीले चुनेका जनप्तिणिधिहरुले (तपाईवको शब्द सापट लिएर भन्नु पर्दा श्रीपेचेहरु) पास गर्न सक्छन् प्तिनिधि सभामा। खै त?
किन पास भएन ? गणतन्त्रको अभाबमा? जननिर्बाचित श्रीपेचेहरुले पास गर्न दिएनन्। यसमा निस्कृय राजतन्त्रको कुनै दोष छैन।
अपहरण गरेर जनतालाई जबर्जस्ती आफ्नो पक्षमा लाग्न लगाम लगाउनेहरुबाट के नै आसा गर्न सकिएला र वाकस्वतन्त्रताको कुरा, मानवअधिकारको कुरा, आन्दोलनमा जेनेभा सन्धि पालन गर्न नजान्नेहरु श्रीपेचे भएर कसो गर्ने हुन् कुन्नि।
भने तपाईँले भन्या जस्तो सफा दिलको श्रीपेचे गणतन्त्रमा झन कसरी जन्मिन्छ भनेर आसा गरौँ?
This is just a quiry neither a personal blame to Nepe jee nor to any individual.
isolated freak Posted on 01-14-05 8:24 AM Reply | Notify Admin
he Zone of Peace Proposal first released by the late General Padam Bahadur Khatri (who was one of the members of drafting the proposal and the points) , was Nepal's effort to break the "special" relationship with India and have a modern-diplomatic and trade relations with India. It was also Nepal's effort at independent foreign policy. I understand it this way. This is why, India did not support the proposal. As some posters wrote, it was one of Nepal's biggest diplomatic adventure which came to a total halt when the new regime somehow indebted to India for its help and support for the democracy movement, replaced the old one.
isolated freak Posted on 01-14-05 8:24 AM Reply | Notify Admin
ho was one of the members of drafting the proposal and the points= who was one of the members the team that drafted the proposal + points
isolated freak Posted on 01-14-05 8:34 AM Reply | Notify Admin
f the Congressi govt of Krishna Pd. Bhattarai had not discarded the Zone of Peace proposal, Nepal would have been saved of various problems that it's facing now. Birendra Sarkar understood the world well, one has to give him credits for that. More than 10 years before the UN passed its resolution 1373 in 2001, Nepal had proposed anti-terrorism resolution when the SAARC summit was held in Kathmandu. All 6 countries supported it, except India. The Zone of Peace proposal too contained a primitive version of UN resolution 1373. Nepal would not let any anti-state elements/groups from teh countries that accept the ZoP propsal and vice-versa. India couldn't accept it because, if it had accepted it, it would have to send back BP and other congressi/communit leaders who were in India. India needed those leaders to put a pressure on Nepal. And Kishunji, Girija repayed the favor by abandoning the whole proposal all together!
isolated freak Posted on 01-14-05 8:37 AM Reply | Notify Admin
epal would not let any anti-state elements/groups from teh countries that accept the ZoP propsal and vice-versa= Nepal would not let any anti-state elements/groups from thh countries that accepted the ZoP propsal to opearte in Nepal, and vice-versa.
Deep Posted on 01-14-05 8:48 AM Reply | Notify Admin
anaRani tantra chali ra bela ma ganatantra ganatantra bhanda bhandai ranatantra (rana = ladai, dwanda), kun sadko ganatantra bhayera janta mathi jai jagyo bhane ta ganthe! hami chai sentiflyat matrai bhairani bhanya prabho?
ek thari le prajatantra lyaim bhane, arka thari le diyim bhane, ajha arka thari le kayam garim bhane--tara jasle je bhane ni kuro ta uhi--- prajatantra aayo. Aauna ta aayo tara gayo kata beiman?
isolated freak Posted on 01-14-05 8:51 AM Reply | Notify Admin
eep bro,
prajtantra farkera gayo. jai nepal hall ma third class ko ticket katera "avataar" film heri ra thyo, tyahi bata bepatta bhayo tyo! Bhaarat tira lagyo re mumbai ma hero huna.
Dada_Giri Posted on 01-14-05 9:02 AM Reply | Notify Admin
F Bro!
गिरिजा खत्तम किताब नै नपढ्ने, जे हुन्छ, हुन्छ भन्ने लिँढे बानिले।
बाबुराम दाइ, क्रान्तिका किताब मात्र पढेर त्यस्तै गर्छु भन्दै तम्सिने ।
भन्न खोज्या के ऊ माथि, हिजो।
अनि अलि अलि तापाईँलाई ब्यंग हान्या पनि हो, छुस्स।
Riten Posted on 01-14-05 9:15 AM Reply | Notify Admin
GP,
That was pretty cheap and disgusting behaviour you showed in your posting above. Regardless of what anyone thinks of Nepe, Ashu and their pro/con republican views, the way you trashed Nepe - not by coming up with your own ideas to surmount his, but by regurgitating Ashu's - was pretty low. Gave me the impression of Sakuni sitting on the sideline rubbing hands with glee while Duryodhana and Bhim wrestles each
other.
For once, please come up with your own "tarka-bitarka". And by that, I mean well thought out ones. Most of your postings are usually emotional bursts that are hard to understand. I'm not sure if that is because of your poor English or just because you are inarticulate, period.
I apologize to others, this posting is off-topic. We were/are having a lively discussion here, which I am sure many, like me, are silently enjoying. I just had to say something when a totally asinine posting comes along to break the flow, that too with obvious "chakadi-baaz" malicious glee.
Riten
isolated freak Posted on 01-14-05 9:18 AM Reply | Notify Admin
ada giri,
hernus, mero padhai ko kshetra ma kitab padhnai parcha- aba tapai jasto sarba gyani parina ma, k garnu? yadi yaha jasto sarba gyani bhayeko bhaye ma ni DongJing Da Xue (Imperial University, Tokyo. Renamed Tokyo University: read it on a book!!) ma padhthe, k garnu? ani to make up for that lack of knowledge, I have to read whatever I can get my hands on, remember, analyze and display my stupidity in front of the world. That's how the system works here.
Dada_Giri Posted on 01-14-05 9:26 AM Reply | Notify Admin
यसरी रिसाउनुहुन्छ भन्ने जान्या भे मैले त्यो जाबो २ हरप लेख्ने नै थिइन।
Deep Posted on 01-14-05 9:35 AM Reply | Notify Admin
ay nepalma avatar ko kura garera IF bro le kya demokrasi samjhaidyo yaar---hai ani rajesh khanna lai chhoraharu le sentiflyat parde ni ke ta tya jay nepal ma---tyo fas klas ma basera herya (tikas kinya thir klass ko ani sekan klas ra fas klass/espesal chhutyaune laamo seat ko row thyo ni ho tyo row ek fadko mare si ta fas klass/espesal afnai), hai tya ta aaimai haru roi ra bhanya---senti bhai ra ke---afu chai adhyaro ma ni euta aankhale katai ramri keti fela parchhe ki pani bhandai hai ani arko aankhale katai gharka manchhe ko fela parinchha ki pani bhandai hai--tyai ta honi...
tyo jay nepal ma thir klass agadi parda ko debre tira kasauti bhanne cinemako poster thyo kya thadayera rakhya---kasauti ahile laula bhare laula bhanda bhandai tara khai kaile layena---ek thari bhanthe pailei la thyo re kahile ho--- achel bhanchha ni saat saal ma prajatantra aa thyo re---ani 15 saalma ni aa thyo re---afulai tha chhaina ---afno paalama ta tyai kasauti jasto prajatantra aayo ki ke ho ta saathi ho? ki malai chilimko kami bha ho?
isolated freak Posted on 01-14-05 9:37 AM Reply | Notify Admin
ya bro, rishayeko hoina :-). bhako kura bhanya ni. actually, i enjoyed reading that post. tara maile bhanna khojeko k ho bhane: its perfectly alright to borrow frameworks from the books or movies, provided that you read at least 5 books supporting/dismissing that framework. Ani add your own analysis. But you have to give the credits to all those who deserve it ni, i.e., the people whose ideas/framework you borrowed. Tyasai artkale gareko research lai mero ho bhanera chorna ta bhayena ni. That's why I included the name of the book and the author, whose framework I borrowed.
aba yahi mauka ma yahalai euta kitab suggest garu ki? Gajjab ko duita Kitab cha Japan ko modern History ko barey ma, duitai Pulitzer Prize winner:
Hirohito and the Making of Modern Japal (from Meiji's death to 1945).
Embracing Defeat: japan in the wake of World War II (from 1945 - the end of American occupation).
:-)
isolated freak Posted on 01-14-05 9:45 AM Reply | Notify Admin
uta kos atta duita kitab suggest gardiyeko.. mero bau ko k jancha ra? ...
deep bro, tyo jai nepal ma third class ma basera night show avatar hereko ma jindagi bhar birsinnaa.. yati pitai khaye ghar ma, bhanera sadhya chaina.. :-)
isolated freak Posted on 01-14-05 9:48 AM Reply | Notify Admin
2 class dekhi nagayeko Jay nepal, ekai choti SLC diney taka Hafta Bandh herna pugya thiye. Harif filim thyo- nepal ma ni sabaile hafta Bandh garnu paryo, maobadi ra sarkar lai.
Dada_Giri Posted on 01-14-05 9:51 AM Reply | Notify Admin
रातभरि साझा हेर्दे ठिक्क !
दिनबरि अफिस जाँदै दिक्क !!
भन्या जस्तो छ। अनि एउटा सिफारिस गर्छु भनेर २टा गर्नु भो।
तर दुइटै हेर्या जस्तो पनि लाग्छ तेइ नि हेरम्ला नि फेरि ब्रोले सिफारिस गरिहालेसी।
(अनि ब्रो! त्यहाँ कुन जग्गा हो कुन्नि ? हाम्रो इश्वर नि थियो यता स्यान्हाइतिर त। भेटेदेखि रामरी काम गर् रे! भन्दिम है। ल दिप ब्रो नि यहीँ छ अब IndisGuise नि आउला यसबेलातिर यसो निस्किन्थ्यो, म तास निकालेँ है कलब्रेक ... ... ...फिट्दै गरम् ... ... ...)
isolated freak Posted on 01-14-05 9:55 AM Reply | Notify Admin
a chahi uttari rajdhani tira. tapai purbi rajdhani ( characters for purba+ rajdhani) ma, ma uttrai rajdhani (characters for uttar+rajdhani) ma.
isolated freak Posted on 01-14-05 10:42 AM Reply | Notify Admin
P, ashu and all,
Here, something more from Beirut to Jerusalem:
when you ask a man what is 2+2, if the man answers 5, then you can correct him and talk for a while. But if he answers 95, then you have to udnerstand that his thinking/logic is different than your's. There's simply no point in talking with him.
Nepe Posted on 01-14-05 11:04 AM Reply | Notify Admin
ow, now it looks like the return of the old Sajha !
पुर्ण राजनैतिक कुरा पछि । अहिलेलाई अल्पराजनैतिक व्यक्तिगत कुरा मात्र ।
Ashu wrote:
"A quick search in databases does NOT establish you as a prolific or even remotely interesting scientific figure in any sense. So one can safely assume that other than
being just another apparatchik in a scientific building filled with 1000s of science PhDs, the existential question of "what should do I do with my life?" (well explored in Po Bronson's book of that same title) must haunt you for days, no? "
Ashu,
You are correct about the inadequacies of my professional life. I am not proud of these inadequacies. However, I am not ashamed of it either. Looking from where I come from (SLC एउटा अन्जान गाउँको स्कुलबाट second division मा पास गरेर I.Sc. र B.Sc. दुबैमा ब्याक लगाएर पास गरेको । M.Sc. पास गरेको कुरा मेरा पिताजीले सर्टिफिकेट नदेखाई पत्याउनु भएको थिएन !) I am doing fine भन्ने लाग्छ ।
You made mockery of my inadequacies. That's okay. Have fun.
You assumed I am frustrated with my personal life. You are wrong.
Obviously you and I have very different views about the measurement of success, we enjoy different things and look at other's life differently.
Different folks, different strokes, naturally.
Since last year it has been a standard way for you to trash my professional life to run away from my questioning your political position regarding the king/republicanism and, in a silly way, trash the republican ideology itself.
My personal inadequacies are my own. They do not disqualify Nepal for a republic. So stop disqualifying the republicanism in Nepal with Nepe's personal inadequacies. Will you ?
If my personal inadequacies interest you for other purposes, I don't mind. Go, make mockery of it. You don't have to do research about me. I can tell it myself. I am not ashamed to reveal it. Here is my resume. Plenty materials for you to play with.
Last name Khadka
Additional last name: Khandka
First name: Deepak
Academic Qualification: Ph.D. (Life Sciences, 2001, Ben-Gurion University, Israel)
Title of Ph.D. dissertation: "Identification and Characterization of DNA Markers and Genes Linked to the Sex of Dioecious Mercurialis annua
Employment Record:
Jan 2005-
Research Teaching Specialist IV
Department of Biochemistry
UMDNJ-RWJMS
Piscataway, NJ
July 2001- Dec 2004
Visiting Fellow
NICHD/NIH
Bethesda, MD
June 1991-Dec 1992
Junior Research Scientist
RLABB
Kathmandu, Nepal
July 1991- Nov 1992
Part-time Teacher
Central Department of Chemistry, TU
Kathmandu, Nepal
Conference/Symposium Attended
61st Annual Meeting of the Society for Developmental Biology, July 21-25, 2002, University of Wisconsin, Madison.
From Cells to Crops: Third Symposium in the Series- Recent Advances in Plant Biotechnology. Sept 4-10, 1999, Stara Lesna, Slovak Republic.
International Symposium and Training Course on Molecular and Biotechnological Aspects of Sexual Reproduction in Higher Plants, Aug 24-Sep 4, 1998, Martonvasar, Hungary.
International Cooperation for Development of Biotechnology, Oct 30- Nov 3, 1994, Jerusalem, Israel
Bibliography:
Khadka DK and Sargent TD. The Role of Msx1 and Msx2 in Neural Crest Induction in Xenopus (submitted)
Luo T, Rangarajan J, Zhang YH, Khadka D and Sargent TD. 2004. Identification of Target Genes for Transcription Factor AP2a in Xenopus Ectoderm (submitted)
Khadka DK, Nejidat A, Tal M and Golan-Goldhirsh A. 2004. Molecular Characterization of a DNA Marker for Sex and a Related Gene in Mercurialis annua. Planta (accepted).
Khadka DK, Nejidat A, Tal M and Golan-Goldhirsh A. 2004. Cloning and Characterization of a Gene Encoding Ribosomal Protein L32 Family from Mercurialis annua (submitted).
Golan-Goldhirsh A, Barazani O, Wang ZS, Khadka DK, Saunders JA, Kostiukovsky V, Rowland LJ. 2004. Genetic relationships among Mediterranean Pistacia species evaluated by RAPD and AFLP markers. Plant Syst Evol 246 (1-2): 9-18
Tuna M, Khadka DK, Shrestha MK, Arumuganathan K, Golan-Goldhirsh A. 2004. Characterization of natural orchardgrass (Dactylis glomerata L.) populations of the Thrace Region of Turkey based on ploidy and DNA polymorphisms. EUPHYTICA 135 (1): 39-46
Khadka DK, Nejidat A, Tal M, Golan-Goldhirsh A. 2002. DNA Markers for Sex: Molecular Evidence for Gender Dimorphism in Dioecious Mercurialis annua L. Mol Breeding 9 (4): 251-257.
Khandka DK, Nejidat A, Tal M, Golan-Goldhirsh A. 1999. Molecular Analysis of a Male Specific RAPD Marker in Dioecious Mercurialis annua. Biologia 54(7):37.
Khandka DK, Nejidat A, Tal M, Golan-Goldhirsh A. 1997. Variability in the Pattern of Random Amplified Polymorphic DNA. Electrophoresis 18:2852-2856.
Khandka DK, Nejidat A, Tal M, Golan-Goldhirsh A. 1995. RAPD Markers for Sex of Dioecious Plants. HortScience 30(4):878.
Khandka DK, Nejidat A, Golan-Goldhirsh A. 1995. Polymorphism and DNA Markers for Asparagus Cultivars Identified by Random Amplified Polymorphic DNA. Euphytica 87:39-44.
Membership
Society for Developmental Biology
International Society of Plant Molecular Biology
Extra-curricular activity
Served as the President of the Student Union Council in Campus Sede Boker, Israel, Nov 1998- Nov 1999.
humjayega Posted on 01-14-05 12:01 PM Reply | Notify Admin
ear Nepe Dude,
Don't forget me for going "HADTAL" (carrying playcards) in Capitol Hill, White House, and Our Embassy to bring republicanism in Nepal.
I couldn't join last time with you but I don't wanna miss this time. Keep posted here.
IndisGuise Posted on 01-14-05 1:13 PM Reply | Notify Admin
ahahaha capital hill and White house ma Nepal ma republicanism launa HADTAL garna jane re.. LOL... ajai don;t forget me re,.. hhahhahaha.. last tyam miss pani gareko timle hamjayegaa... dhaat... arko pali pakkai nagara :p
Hamjayega bro... lala... bush le chiya pani garna bolayo bhane katha sunaam hai... dherai intelligent cha bush.. and besides he has nothing else to do. "Ekdaam Free cha uuu". Hehehe.. Yedi busy raicha bhane.. yeso group ma nabheyani.. single pic with playcards, post garam hai :)
Hehehehe... IndisGuise:)
( no offence... just " could not help but SMILE!!!")
Confused Posted on 01-14-05 2:09 PM Reply | Notify Admin
OL! hahahaha
ma ni mero resume tasum?? :P
IndisGuise Posted on 01-14-05 2:15 PM Reply | Notify Admin
hayo pardain confuse bro,
Bujdainam hola hamle.
Feri hami pani timi hola :P
Spare us.
Baru hamjayega le tascha ki... Nepe ji sanga HADTAAL ta janchu bhancha.. hahahhahaha LOL :)
IndisGuise Posted on 01-14-05 2:15 PM Reply | Notify Admin
hayo pardain confuse bro,
Bujdainam hola hamle.
Feri hami pani timi hola :P
Spare us.
Baru hamjayega le tascha ki... Nepe ji sanga HADTAAL ta janchu bhancha.. hahahhahaha LOL :)
paramendra Posted on 01-14-05 3:11 PM Reply | Notify Admin
lection talk. How so?
- http://www.voanews.com/english/2005-01-13-voa47.cfm
"The rebels control two-thirds of the countryside. Political analysts say they will be anxious to show that elections cannot be held unless the government reaches an agreement with them."
Ashu says: "This monarchy and republic ka kura is premature and diversionary in Nepal at this time."
Nothing could be further from the truth. To retain or not to retain the monarchy is the number one issue on the table. That is why there is all the chaos, the insurgency.
"The more pressing reality in Nepal is that all should aim to be united FIRST to completely defang the Maoists (who are NOT to be trusted at all) WHILE raising hell against the army's excesses."
This is highly unrealistic. You sound like the 1% in Nepal who feel like the Maoists are shaking things up a little too much to be of comfort to you.
This is not a "trust" issue. This is an issue of political solutions. You survey the reality (of the Maoists) and then you seek common ground. You negotiate.
Btw Ashu, I bet you get most of your "news" on Nepal from online sorces. That is most Sajhawasis.
iso freaking freak. This monarchist freaking lumps me with the Maoists.
I am a free marketeer, one person one vote, social progressive. Where I do see some light in Maoist politics is their voicing of the various ethnic greivances, which are legitimate.
I am a peace-first person. That is why I am such a strong supporter of the idea of a Constituent Assembly. After that, once a system of one person one vote has been established, let the various groups play out their interests and grievances through non-violent organizing.
"The change in the system at this point, or at this chaotic stage, means creating more chaos/anarchy."
This is the mindset that says, I'd rather people die than change the political status quo.
"Changes can be achieved from within the system."
Not true. The 1990 constitution is fundamentally flawed.
- http://www.geocities.com/bhagat266/madhesi/lawoti.html
"Everything was wrong from the very beginning. What we are seeing now is the fruition of peoples? anger that was suppressed for more than 200 years. One group always dominated the country whereas others never had any real political power. Democracy was letting the same elite group control the country in a more internationally respected disguise. So what the Maoists might be wrong in the ways, but they are not wrong in their demands."
Close to how I feel.
"See the problem is, we don't even have a common consensus on Nepal."
This diversity of opinions is positive, not negative.
paramendra Posted on 01-14-05 3:56 PM Reply | Notify Admin
Nepe.
Ashu and Go Da Baa.. LOL.
Man. You write damn good Nepali. Pokhta!
Ashu. Almost every posting you put out tends to have a predictable paragraph .... You disagree with me. And that is just fine. I am Ashu.
I would think that would be obvious. That it is okay to disagree.
"Sure, your job may be in molecular biology, but your passion clearly lies in molecular politics. And who do you fancy yourself as-- some sort of Nepali Ayatollah.."
This is cheap. In the era of globalization and the internet, participation in an online forum like this one is as much a contribution as any in offline Kathmandu. A lot of journos in Kathmandu read these Sajha threads. And these Sajha threads often provide room for more bold talk and disagreements than any in the traditional Nepali media, or even political discourse. Come to think of it, what do they do in the US Congress? They talk. That is what they used to do in the Pratinidhi Sabha. Talk is action.
I am appreciative of Nepe's presence here. Although I have no idea who he is offline.
"That is why, you are atavistically and viscerally unable to even accept the possibility that there may well be OTHER ideas out there that do not match your own. "
That might be, but Nepe's ideas are more progressive than that of most others.
"A clash of opinions, however vehemently expressed, need not frighten you or anyone else."
But half the time you are talking about the person and not his ideas or views.
nispaksha
Thanks for the larger font size for Nepali words. Much easier on the eyes.
Ashu: "..my disappointment with the political parties' repeated failures to rein in the king when there were opportunities to do so....Seeing how the fights within Koirala dynasty is playing out, it does make me wonder whether all we will see is the mere eplacement of the Shahs with the Koiralas! ..... Until we get out of this terrible fix, this strange impasse..."
This is insightful.
Ashu's/Deuba's SuperModel 5: Elections For A New Parliament: How feasible is this? How big a roadblock are the Maoists? Do they have what it takes to prevent it from happening? This is a question on facts.
nispaksha: "..problem with agitating party's agenda in terms of their inability to clearly state that they are there for a republican movement.."
True. They just have not been able to take that final step. If the king is as unreasonable as you say he is in not going with your demands, what good do you still see in him?
My latest thoughts on the monarchy:
- http://www.geocities.com/paramendra/2004/nation2.html
Ashu: "Why is it that when it comes to republicanism,
you guys are so CERTAIN about it .."
Those like Nepe who are die-hard republicans are saying it makes sense as a better, more democratic idea. This is presented as an idea.
I guess there will continue to be undercurrents of "personal" comments here. Despite that, we are managing to have a pretty thought-provoking discussion. Unlike anywhere else that I can think of online.
DadaGiri. A republican democracy would not be a cure all. It will merely be a tool with which am empowered people can better meet their challenges.
The whole child soldier thing is a major shame, a crime, a major violation.
I can live with this option.
paramendra Posted on 01-14-05 4:05 PM Reply | Notify Admin
Nepe. "M.Sc. पास गरेको कुरा मेरा पिताजीले सर्टिफिकेट नदेखाई पत्याउनु भएको थिएन !)" LOL. .... This kind of "personal" talk is welcome, b/c it is fun!
:-)
There is this other thread on the monarchy, although more tabloid style, at least the topic....
- http://www.sajha.com/sajha/html/openthread.cfm?forum=2&ThreadID=18676
ashu Posted on 01-15-05 1:54 AM Reply | Notify Admin
epe,
Well, it's another day, and here I am back on Sajha.
Re-reading my postings above this morning, I -- upon reflection and after
discussing things over with a friend whose inputs I value -- say that I am sorry if I
went a bit overboard there, giving you no choice but to be on the defensive in
stark personal terms.
Sorry.
That said, I respect your right to fully espouse republicanism, and that aspect hasn't bothered me at all.
It's just that I wish you'd ease up on giving space to views that do NOT jive with yours WITHOUT unfairly and relentlessly painting others as royal stooges, when they are not and when all they are trying to do is find their own voice by taking conflicting and contradictory information into account to make up their mind re: what's what.
I am sure you will agree that republicanism, in practice, is not as straightforward and uncontroversial as one would like it to be.
****
Paramendra,
It's fair to say that most people in Nepal, at this time, just want to be able to:
a) go and live and work in their villages or towns without fear
b) run their businesses without fear, and
c) prosper doing what they love with minimum hassles.
d) have a government who can enforce the laws, and maintain security.
Political parties surely have their differences with the King, and that's good. But, in the scheme of things, those differences are comparatively minor.
Their GREATER differences are with the Maoists, whose aim, among others, is to ultimately finish off the political parties altogether.
One reason why the Ratna Park ko Andolan has not taken off is that the parties' resources to launch a vigorous andolan have been shrinking for a long time, ever
since they got out of power.
Last time, for a while, they got all those people from all over Nepal to chant slogans in Ratna Park, but could not provide -- either from the party coffers or through donations --food and lodgings to those karyakartas for long, and those people eventually went back to their villages, taking the steam off the andolan. [When the Maoists run out of food and lodging facilities for their karya-kartas, they simply plunder and loot villages!
Political parties cannot do that.]
Given this sort of state of affairs, it's too much to expect the political parties to launch a definitive republican andolan now. Either they need a lot of resources now or they need time. I am on the side of giving them time.
And so, as a matter of strategy, the parties can better marshal their resources now
by shaking hands with the king AGAINST the Maoists -- thereby providing, with the
help of civil society institutions, a legitimate check against the Army's illegal excesses in
this -- let's not mince words -- war to defang the Maoists.
Else, all that their their constant bickering, continuous fights and jhagada achieves is just dissipation of energy, goodwill and money, making them further vulnerable to
BOTH Maoists' and the King's "pee-tai" -- taking the country to either extremes,
closer to a 'failed state' paradigm.
Psychologically too, the joining of the two forces (king and the political parties) for a time being for the elections and for the formation of new government will provide a FRESH beginning to Nepal and Nepalis.
oohi
ashu
isolated freak Posted on 01-15-05 7:15 AM Reply | Notify Admin
armendra,
look, let's talk without being personal.
First things first: you say, you are for free market, one man, one vote many times. good. however, there's no one in Nepal right now to guaranty you that. also, there's no one in Nepal who is taking up the madhesi issue which is so dear to you, except for the Maoists or the factions close to the Maoists. All Sadhvawana party is doing is spreading durbhawana. so eitehr you have to denounce the close-to-maoists speaking up for their rights and taking up arms. or you have to simply support them. then that makes you close to the Maoists, if not a Maoist yourself.
2. This is the mindset that says, I'd rather people die than change the political status quo.
Parmendra, this has been the pattern, i.e., when you have a regime change in a chaotic situation, the succeeding regime is even more tyrranical and will not alllow you one man one vote many times. It will be one man, one vote, one time. Period. Look at what happened in Iran, Afghanistan and all over the world after 1990. How many of the neo-democracies are functioning properly? Not many. Why? Because the transition was made overnight without developing the INSTITUTIONS necessary to sustain the new system. So if you were talking about regime change in a more peaceful time, it would have made sense. If republican cause is that dear to you, then go back to Nepal, lobby and work to develop institutions that will somehow sustain the new system, when and if the old system collapses. If not, then instead of asking people to search for Sajha in google, go to the Carnegie Endowment for World Peace, Democracy home page and start reading the articles there. You don't have to remind anyone that "democracy is an universal value", having gone to a liberal arts school and having been a student of history and politics, I know that very well. And supporting monacrhy, which I am not at all ashamed of supporting, because there are many forms of demoracy, including many Monarchical Democracy. Englad is a democracy with Monarchy, so is Sweden, Spain, Denmark and pretty soon, Morocco will join the league. Look, you have your own raesons based on your experience to denounce Monarchy, I have mine to support it. Let's be clear on that. If you don't find that comfortable then ask yourself, what kind of democracy do you believe in? If you do not tolerate differences in opinions in a mere web boarsd, what would you do in real life?
Re: Constitution of 1990. It might be flawed. It might be perfect. You can't just make a broad general statement. If its flawed, what ammendments can be made to correct the flaws? Every constitution in the world has been amended. So why not ours. Just changing the constitution wouldn't make any sense. If changing the constitution was the remedy, then why you are seeing dictatorships and authoritarian regimes from Krgyzstan to Zimbabwe? Sure their constitution is un-flawed, but why the hell do Askar Akayev and Mogabe keep on doing whatever they want. Because they can. Just copying the constitution of Switzerland is not going to make Nepal as good as Switzerland.
3. Re: Diversity: Diversity is good but diversity of opinion at this point is NOT good. Nepal never went throgh a nation building phase like Turkey or other modern nations went throgh. After the unification, we kept on fighting the Brits. Then came the Ranas, who didn't do anything to unite the people, instead they borrowed the Brits' divide and Rule policy and divided the nation. So for many, Nepal is just a concept. They could have been in India or in what is today's China. Call it a historic accident, they were confined to the physical territory of what is today's Nepal. I don't exactly remember who, but somebody came up with the idea of "crowd symbol"- when you ask people what their country means to them, a image comes to their heads/minds/heart, and that's what unites the people, that's nationalism. People think in terms of US/WE, not THEY/THEM and instead of seeing themselves confined to the country's physical territory by a historical accident, they tend to think of it as a "divine" act. We are lacking in that. Right now, nationalism and one goal, whether it be supporting the Maoists or the Monarchy, should unite the whole of Nepal. Therefore, at this point different ideas on how to handle the situation will only lead to an even bigger disaster. First unite on the problem, then unite on the solution and when the problem is solved, then talk about diversity and other things. If Gandhi had not united the people of India for one common cause, and if the people from all over India hadn't thought of it as their common cause, then India would have been independent 20 years later. If Keman Attaturk of Turkey hadn't radically united the Turkish people by changing the script and even the Islam, and if the people hadn't seen the reasons for him doing that, then today's Turkey would have been no different than Iran or Syria. First unite for a common cause. And when the true unity has been achieved, then talk about diversity. It will make more sense then. Otherwise be ready to get your house searched by the Indian troops. And when that happens, we cannot blame India for sending its troops to search our houses because, we were not united and we ourselves made Nepal a failed state. India will do what it will have to do to protect itslef from a failed neighbor, just as many nations have done in the past.
Now you can disagree or not even read my lengthy post.
isolated freak Posted on 01-15-05 7:33 AM Reply | Notify Admin
e is reported to have told BBC Nepali Service few days later that India could intervene if Kathmandu were to be threatened although no such situation had yet developed. (Janamancha, 26/12/04) Any such possible intervention would be by air or by commando. This was exactly what the fourth scenario in the scenario analysis presented in Delhi seminar had projected at a time when the situation would get out of control- From today's TKP.
Let me add something else here: Regime change in tdoay's world is not only due to bargaining between the political forces within any country. Of course bargaining and consensus is one major factor, but you cannot just dismiss the neighboring countries' or even super-powers' interests in that country. It is both an internal bargaining process and international support for that bargaining process based on interests. Our 1990 democracy was supported by India, otherwise there wouldn't have been any regime change. If you believe that revolutions are internal process then you are wrong. Revolutions and regime changes are international process. I mentioned Gandhi's contribution to free India. Gandhi united the people but it wasn't the only reason India became independent. When Frankilin Delano Roosevelt and Churchill were talking about American participation and help in the World War II, Roosevelt, who was against colonilization told Churchill to grant India independence after the end of the war. So you see, how internal and international factors are responsible for the transitions or regime changes in the world. And sorry to break this down to you, Nepal's neighbors and freinds want the monarchy to stay, for their own reasons. If you want the American policy on Nepal and India to change, start writing to the senators and powerful lobbies in America, India, UK and everywhere.
isolated freak Posted on 01-15-05 7:36 AM Reply | Notify Admin
f you want the American policy on Nepal and India = if you want the American and Indian policy on Nepal
isolated freak Posted on 01-15-05 8:49 AM Reply | Notify Admin
ithin any country= within a country
Gokul Posted on 01-15-05 9:47 AM Reply | Notify Admin
epublicanism is like a potential earthquake in Nepal:
(1)-Like an earthquake, it is impending and beyond anyone's control. It has become a systemic inevitability due to the failure of the existing system. The existing system has failed because
-It does not learn and adapt.
-It is incapable of expanding its boundary. In this age of globalization, no
system is an island.
-For a system to be stable, the regulator of the system must be part of the
system. Evidently, this is not the case with the present system. The
regulators have placed themselves outside of the system thereby leading
to the inevitable collapse of the whole system.
-The existing system uses the failure of its components as a metric of its
succcess. This cannibalization is necessarily suicidal.
-The existing system, according to the law of requisite variety, fails to
accomodate different cultures, languages and ideologies rendering itself
primitive.
The existing system has existed so far due to the following:
-In the begining, it did have some benefits to offer. The model (one central
regulation) abstracted many complexities and functioned smoothly for
some time. Furthermore, there was no benchmark to compare its
performance so its validity did not become a question.
-Due to the lack of exposure to the outside world (environment), the
system was able to create a boundary and hence protect itself.
-The system was efficient in creating inefficiencies so much so that its
components were not able to bootstrap themselves for a change.
-According to the law of inertia, there is always a resistance to change
whether it is physical or mental.
(2) Republicanism like an earthquake destroys many things. It destroys values both good and bad. The destruction of bad is surely a welcome thing. Change is a fundamental law of nature. If we do not change in time, change will be forced upon us. There is simply no escape from this "karmic" law of systems. Once we understand that the change is inevitable, then the wise thing is to prepare for it, not to doubt it. The purpose of this preparation is to protect good things that may otherwise will be destroyed during transition.
(3) An existing system change its state in two ways: (i) the present system is too dysfunctional even though the system it is moving to is uncertain and probabbly more disruptive than the present one. (ii) the present system is functioning well but there appears an alternative which is even better. All developed and democratic nations belong to the second category while primitive and feudal systems belong to the first one.
(4)There are two choices for the existing system: (i)Deny the necessity for change. Engage is a massive disruption and break all the functional components so much so that it reaches LEVEL ZERO. (ii)Accept the reality of change. Realize its systemic deficiencies and transform itself into a viable learning system. Observing the current mindset of the existing system which is too rigid, obstinate and unenlightened, it seems that the second option is too compromising and humuliating a choice for it.
Every thing stands with its own force and collapses due to its own weight. This is the principle of self-organization.
isolated freak Posted on 01-15-05 11:01 AM Reply | Notify Admin
o. 4 (II) is a good option.
- The existing system, according to the law of requisite variety, fails to
accomodate different cultures, languages and ideologies rendering itself
primitive.
Which state has acocmodated different cultures, languages and ideologies in its working? There's always going to be one majority group, one principal ideology and one national culture. Others are reduced to the Sub-status. The problem in Nepal was/is, all things minority has been reduced to sub-sub status. However, this can be changed without changing the system itself, after achieving a national consensus on the problems and their solutions. Right now, the state exists even if its weak. It has certain decision making powers. But if we are to make a transition now, the new state will be really weak, because it won't be able to fight tribalism and regionalism because the transition was made without agreeing on the PROBLEMS and their SOLUTIONS. Instead oif all working together for a better Nepal, all will be fighting to establish their SUPREMACY because every group, every region sees Nepal based on its heritage and cultural tradition. So first a national consensus on the problems and what exactly needs to be chanegd, the regime or the workings of the regime, then go for any system the majority wants. Then the new regime will be legitimate, otherwise welcome to the Hobbesian Jungle! Enter at your own risk.
isolated freak Posted on 01-15-05 11:55 AM Reply | Notify Admin
lso one thing that I don't udnerstand here in this debate: Everyone wants the system to change. They say they want a Republic but how is the Republic of Nepal going to solve the Maoist problem? Will the Maoist problem be gone with the institution of monarchy?
If yes, HOW?
An Alliance between the democracti Republican forces and the Maoists? Is it possible? Two extremes coming together? The Maoists want a "dictatorship of the proleteriat", the Republican side wants a functionaing one man one vote many times democracy, how is it posible in the Post-monarchy Nepal? Won't the Maoists be fighting the burgeoise (Sp?) Republican govt. too? What will teh Republican Nepal offer the Maoists taht will make them drift away from their central aim and objective of establishing a dictatorship of the proleteriat? What is that magic formula?
The Maoists do not want a burgeuoise (sp?) democracy, they want a totalitarian state based on the Leninist model, because this is the only type of state that will help them execute their plans, other forms of state do not exist or do not function in the Proleterian Dictatorship's first stage. Also the Maoist state will be opposed to one man, one vote, many times. The decisions will be made by the Party Central Committee and the General Council of the Politbureau. There simply won't be any direct voting in the proposed Maoist system. To get a glimpse of how the Maoist state will be like, read Dr. Baburam Bhattarai's reply to YUbaraj Ghimire translated into English on this week's Nepali Times. The Maoists have their own vision, own ideology and own strategy to run the state which is ocean's apart than that of the Republican democrats. So as far as I can see, there will be no lasting alliance.
Inmagine there's a Republican Nepal and the Maoist problem is still not solved, what then? Wouldn't the Republican side be fighting the Maoists for its survival like the existing regime is doing now? Or will it just handover the power to the Maoists? If it is going to handover the power to the Maoists to avoid further blooodshed, then why this drama of transition from Monarchy to Republic to The Dictatorship of the Proleteriat?
Also who is leading the Republican Movement in Nepal? Who is the leader? What party? Even if tomorrow people go out and rally against the Monarchy, which party is going to ofer them it's banner? As far as I see, there's no one leading the movement, there's no party willing to lend its banner to the Republican cause in Nepal as of today. Of course, there are certain writers and students but who is listening to them? How many supporters they have? OK they chanted anti-king slogans but it means nothing, absolutely nothing because they neither have any organziational base/support or structure, nor they have a leader. 200 people in kathmandu chanted anti-King slogans, 20000 people line up in front of the Narayanhiti Rajdurbar for Dashain Tika.
Alright this is from my side to this discussion. Since some of you here believe 2+2 is 95 and 200 people chanting anti-monarchy slogans in the narrow ratnapark strip to be a nationwide campaign against monarchy, i have to say, we have a very different way of looking at what's happening in Nepal.
isolated freak Posted on 01-15-05 12:06 PM Reply | Notify Admin
ne dangerous assumption on the part of the Republican intellectuals: They see the Maoist movement to be a social movement of the underprivileged people. So if the new system is more accomodating to the social-economical issues, the Maoists will disappear. No way. The Maoists are a political force too. Do not simply assume that they are fighting for bread and money and equal rights. They are fighting for a STATE. They are not just vanishing when there' a Republic of Nepal. They will be around and you have to confront them politically, and god forbid, militarily when the time comes. So solve the Maoist issue first or start negotiating with the Maoist leaders on the possible alliance, then you will survive for 10 years maximum. Sooner or later, the Maoists will take up their arms again and throw you out so that they can have their state, just the way you wish to overthrow the monarchy today.
paramendra Posted on 01-15-05 12:27 PM Reply | Notify Admin
Ashu
I greatly value your perspective, especially because you reside in Kathmandu. I will have to agree with you (not that I thought otherwise on my own) that most people would rather just get on with their lives.
I have been to all corners of America, and Americans are not different. Most people are just busy earning their living.
"Given this sort of state of affairs, it's too much to expect the political parties to launch a definitive republican andolan now. Either they need a lot of resources now or they need time. I am on the side of giving them time."
I think it is more like to the vast majority of Nepalis, the idea of getting rid of the monarchy just is not on the top of their agenda, or even item 9. Nepe might disagree. But that is my reading of the situation.
But I don't think if only the king and the parties can get together, then the Maoist problem will be solved. The Maoists just kept growing when that was the case.
"...the Army's illegal excesses ..."
This is a major problem.
"Psychologically too, the joining of the two forces (king and the political parties) for a time being for the elections and for the formation of new government will provide a FRESH beginning to Nepal and Nepalis."
I think this unrealistic though.
I don't think the Maoists are shooting for a communist state. They are not unlike the UML. The UML has not changed its name, but it is basically a social democratic party. The Maoists likewise are just looking to save face. They just want a Constituent Assembly. And they will live with whatever the Assembly comes up with.
isolated freak
"..let's talk without being personal.."
Your lumping me with the Maoists is personal. It is name calling. Because you do it with full knowledge I am nowhere close to the Maoists, ideologically speaking. So stop that.
"... the madhesi issue which is so dear to you..."
I am a Sadbhavana alum. True. But my political thoughts on Nepal are kind of with many dimensions.
- http://nepal.motime.com
I think more of poverty in Nepal than any other single issue.
"...so eitehr you have to denounce the close-to-maoists speaking up for their rights and taking up arms. or you have to simply support them. then that makes you close to the Maoists, if not a Maoist yourself..."
So because you believe in Madhesi-Pahadi equality, and hence you are a Maoist! What are YOU, a McCarthy grandchild?
Talking to you is like hearing an echo. You are a monarchist. Point taken. You have nothing more to say. You are no democrat.
"...then go back to Nepal..... instead of asking people to search for Sajha in google, go to the Carnegie Endowment for World Peace...."
Don't freaking tell me what to do! If I ever need career advice from you, I will ask for it, but I doubt that will ever happen.
"..Englad is a democracy with Monarchy, so is Sweden, Spain, Denmark and pretty soon, Morocco will join the league...."
Monarchy in Nepal is nowhere like those in England, Sweden etc. The British Prime Minister orders the British Army. In Nepal the king calls the shots. Major difference.
paramendra Posted on 01-15-05 12:27 PM Reply | Notify Admin
reak .... only a few postings above yours, I have posted my opinions on the monarchy, which is pretty nuanced. So stop painting me one way or the other.
(1) P is a Maoist.
(2) P is a Republican.
(3) P does not tolerate differences in opinion.
What other brush stokes do you have? All three get proven null and void for anyone who cares to peruse just through this one thread, let alone my writings elsewhere online.
" Just copying the constitution of Switzerland is not going to make Nepal as good as Switzerland."
So I guess you come from some weird, ignorant school of thought that says constitutions do not matter. The truth is they matter fundamentally. Again, read Lawoti's work on this. Link posted above.
Do your homework, freak.
"Diversity is good but diversity of opinion at this point is NOT good."
This coming from a guy who just accused me of not tolerating differences in opinion!
"Right now, nationalism and one goal, whether it be supporting the Maoists or the Monarchy, should unite the whole of Nepal."
The heck with your Panchayate nationalism.
" First unite on the problem, then unite on the solution and when the problem is solved, then talk about diversity and other things."
That ONE idea in my mind would be the Constituent Assembly. Because I believe disarming the Maoists and sending the army back into the barracks has to be the primary goal.
You are basically a status quo person. That is what unity and nationalism means to you. I wonder where that comes from? Your schooling? Upbringing? Ethnic background? Are you a Nepali Speaking High Caste Male from a family that perhaps made it big milking the bureaucracy?
Freak's Supermodel 6: Indian Military Intervention: This is so far fetched. I call this Mahendra's ghost. Scare the people so they keep under you.
" If you believe that revolutions are internal process then you are wrong."
I can't be so naive as to say that. I do think in terms of geopolitics. But I do thin the primary credit for the 1990 achievement goes to the Nepali people who came into the streets. They are the primary reason why the change happened. Otherwise India was still there 2 and 20 years before that.
How can a self-proclaimed nationalist like you be so disrespectful of the Nepali people! Proves your version of nationalism is hollow.
So India's independence was more due to Roosevelt than to Gandhi and the other Indian leaders!? I mean, I don't dislike Roosevelt or anything like that, but I thin the Indian freedom fighters deserve to be mentioned more than in name.
So there is a new freak avatar. He not only worships Mahendra, he also worships the White Colonialists of yore.
"And sorry to break this down to you, Nepal's neighbors and freinds want the monarchy to stay, for their own reasons."
I know the truth, you don't know the truth, let me tell you the truth. Freak, you are not going anywhere talking like this. I think none of Nepal's neighbors would mind Nepal becoming a republic, just like they do not mind the king hanging on. They are fine either way. They are too preoccupied with their own stuff. Countries are like individuals, that way.
I am trying to figure you out.
(1) Freak worships Mahendra and is a Monarchist.
(2) Freak is an apologist for the White Colonialists of yore.
(3) Freak thinks what happens inside of Nepal is primarily a result of the desires of those few Indian bureaucrats in the South Block, which is basically a desk in the Indian Foreign Ministry. Some desk, that must be!
I tried, I could not. What exactly do you stand for?
"If you want the American policy on Nepal and India to change, start writing to the senators and powerful lobbies in America, India, UK and everywhere."
I think the reverse. I think it is more about empowering the Nepalis with voting rights. Which would be by bringing democracy back. And also in my small ways getting involved with literacy, primary health care, and micro credit projects.
paramendra Posted on 01-15-05 12:31 PM Reply | Notify Admin
Gokul's thoughs are thought-provoking. What can I say?
paramendra Posted on 01-15-05 12:35 PM Reply | Notify Admin
Freak
"There's always going to be one majority group, one principal ideology and one national culture. Others are reduced to the Sub-status."
Freak is a racist too!
Freak's scare tactics are so transparent.
In the software industry they say there is software and there is vaporware. Vaporware is software you get promised but never delivered.
Freak's delivering scareware! Gladly there are no buyers. He is saying, all those who seek equality, silent, or we all get apocalypse! The earth will shatter if we march towards equality!
paramendra Posted on 01-15-05 12:45 PM Reply | Notify Admin
odel 1: Girija Is To Be Blamed
Model 2: King G Is To Be Blamed
Model 3: Deuba Is To Be Blamed
Model 4: The Maoists Are To Be Blamed
Supermodel 1: Panchayat II
Supermodel 2: "Jana Sarkar"
Supermodel 3: Constituent Assembly
Supermodel 4: Inflexibility
Ashu's/Deuba's SuperModel 5: Elections For A New Parliament
Freak's Supermodel 6: Indian Military Intervention
Recent news shows SuperModel 5 is now in play.
"The RNA had said that it could provide security for phase-wise election."
Supermodel 7: Revival of the Parliament.
"UML initiates dialogue with major parties for revival of parliament."
"The newly appointed Chief Justice Hari Prasad Sharma said, ?The house revival call is purely political and the court can?t intervene in the issue.?"
If the 5-people can mange it, that will be positive. That will be some action towards restoration of normalcy.
paramendra Posted on 01-15-05 3:14 PM Reply | Notify Admin
OW FREE IS BABURAM?
http://www.sajha.com/sajha/html/openThread.cfm?forum=2&ThreadID=18740
Anyone who thinks of Stalin as a legitimate role model is out of the whack. I guess Ashu's posting shows Baburam is in that category. In their purity, I guess the Maoists are that. But I don't believe that is their reality. Just like monarchy evolves, democracies evolve, the UML evolved, I believe we should give the Maoists the benefit of doubt. The idea should not be to rub their noses into the ground. The idea should be to let them save face. And bring them into the mainstream. If they want to go into the Constituent Assembly without first disarming, then that would be cause for suspicion.
So, yes, seek third party mediation. Yes, go for a Constituent Assembly. But only if the Maoists disarm before that.
Riten has offered a wonderful comparison between various monarchies. King G does not exactly look good.
http://www.sajha.com/sajha/html/openthread.cfm?forum=2&ThreadID=18676
I think the monarchists will fight the idea of a Constituent Assembly tooth and nail. (1) They can not risk being voted out: they end up being commoners. (2) For now, they have the power to say no to the idea. (3) They are anathema to the idea the monarchy needs public approval. To them it is the other way round. It is democracy that the people get as a gift from the royals.
But a newly elected parliament - if possible - can be better than the current state of affairs. The question is, is it possible? Reality check for both Deuba and the Maoists.
Nepe Posted on 01-15-05 3:26 PM Reply | Notify Admin
राम्रो परिसम्वाद चलिरहेको छ ।
गणतान्त्रिक आन्दोलनलाई असम्भव भन्नेहरु यथार्थ र ईमान्दारीताको कति नजिक छन् भनेर हेर्न तलको तस्बीरले मद्दत गर्ला भन्ने ठानेको छु ।
यो तस्बिर केही महिना अघि एउटा थ्रेडमा आशुलाई देखाउदा उसको जवाफ oohi चिरपरिचित थियो- " तँ खत्तम सायन्टिस्ट होस्" ।
cardinal Posted on 01-15-05 3:47 PM Reply | Notify Admin
aramendra wrote: "I believe we should give the Maoists the benefit of doubt."
Kahile samma bro? Ra ke ko adhaar ma? PFN ko member ko wife lai body ma drill garne dekhi liyera, school children lai forcefully recruit garera army ko haat bata marna lagaune dekhi liyera, teacher haru lai ghati retera marne dekhi liyera ke samma garna bhyayeko chaina tiniharule? Aaba pani tiniharulai benefit of doubt dinu bhaneko euta naive optimism matra ho. Manche khane baagh le aaba arulai tanna khaisakyo tyesaile malai tokdaina bhaneko jastai.
Nepe Posted on 01-15-05 3:52 PM Reply | Notify Admin
adagiri को निस्क्रिय राजतन्त्र बारे मिथक र Iso Freak को माओवादीले प्रजातान्त्रिक गणतन्त्रलाई स्वीकार्लान् नस्वीकार्लान भन्ने प्रश्नसंग सम्बन्धित मेरो पुरानो बहस अझै सान्दर्भिक होला ।
- http://www.sajha.com/sajha/html/column.cfm?extraid=622
Gokul Posted on 01-15-05 4:57 PM Reply | Notify Admin
n order to decide what could be the possible way out of the present situation, we can streamline our actions by thinking strategically.
(1) Elimination by aspects - First, determine the worst outcomes desired and sort them in a descending order. For example,
(a) Nepal becoming a maoist state. There is no doubt that very few people would want this choice. It is cruel, outdated and inhumane. Simply unacceptable.
(b) Nepal regressing to authoritarian regime - The idea of somebody directing others what to do and what not to do (based on whims and not logic or acceptable rules) is also not acceptable in the 21st century.
(c) Democracy as a system (although noisy and turbulent in the beginning) has properties which guarantee that it becomes stable after sometime. The performance of the system's stakeholders functions as a negative feedback to stabilize the system given that the system is autonomous to begin with. Furthermore, the variance (fluctuation) of a system run by "n" people is inversely proportional to the square root of n. The absolute dictatorship is the most risky (n=1). Hence, the more the participants, the less risky the system becomes. This concept is similar to investment in stock markets as investing in a single stock is the riskiest. The safe investment is to create a diversified portfolio. Democracy is such portfolio.
Some potential solutions:
(1) Simultaneous defanging of maoists and monarchy - a tripartite agreement. The monarchy will be defanged but not dethroned. This alleviates the fear of those who worry about the possible chaos and misrule created by republicanism. The monarchy will remain what it claims to be - just a symbol of national unity. Symbol has some psychological value and monarchy can play that role if it wishes. It will be duly compensated for that job. Some intial valid agenda of maoists (equality of caste, gender, religions, control of liquor and gamblings etc.) should be incorporated. In order to implement this plan, some external force such as UN is necessary. This is the least risky solution and should be acceptable by all.
(2) Defanging of maoists first - It is not achievable as there is no trust between the monarchy and democratic party. This lack of trust is justifiable because the monarchy is trying its best to regain its lost power by undermining all democratic values and norms.
(3) Defanging of the monarchy first - Since the objective of maoists is not a democracy, there can be /should be no alliance between them and democratic forces. This reality makes this option impossible.
(4) Dethroning of the monarchy first - Ironic it may sound, the maoists who purportedly demand republic are the very impediment to its realization. People have reasonable doubts and fear that once the monarchy is dethroned, then Nepal is more likely to become a maoist republic than a democratic republic leading to the worst outcome stated in 1a above. This fear has some basis seeing the growing ruthlessness of maoists and the utter helpness of ordinary people even in the presence of armed forces purported to counteract maoists. THIS IS WHERE THE IDEAL REPUBLICANS FAIL. They have not yet succeeded in showing why this fear is unfounded.
While the democratic republic is the ideal and long-run equilibrium state for Nepal, it appears that it needs two-stage approach. This makes sense because when a system is highly dynamic and complex, there are many simultaneities which cannot be handled in a linear and one-shot approach.
Nepe Posted on 01-15-05 6:48 PM Reply | Notify Admin
have noticed Gokul ji enjoys rather philosophical meditations and generally avoids to write political prescriptions. This time around, he has gone out of his way. It is always a pleasure to read Gokul ji's stirring thoughts and reflections.
I agree 100% with Gokul ji's observations and 99.9% with his recommendations.
The remaining 0.01% was for my extra caution with how do we do defanging of the monarchy.
Just let's us not forget that there are no visible poison glands in the monarch the Constitution of the Kingdom of Nepal 1990 enshrines. The loyalty of the Royal Nepal Army to the monarch does not come from the constitution. It comes from elsewhere.
Where doe the royal loyality come from, if it does not from the constitution ?
धेरै मध्यमार्गी बुद्धिजिवीहरुलाई यो ब्रम्हरहस्य थाहा छैन । त्यसैले उनिहरु संवैधानिक राजतन्त्र बेकाम भैसकेको देख्दा देख्दै पनि यसको विकल्प देख्दैनन् र त्यही संवैधानिक राजतन्त्रको रट लगाउन बाध्य छन् ।
मलाई सोध्नुहुन्छ भने मलाई त्यो ब्रम्हरहस्य थाहा छ । lab को काम छाडी छाडी (यही भएर न आशुको खत्तम सायन्टिस्ट भइयो नि) राजनीतिक ध्यानमा बसेर नै त्यो ब्रम्हरहस्य प्राप्त गरेको हुँ ।
र यो ब्रम्हरहस्यलाई एकछिन नखोलि राख्छु । पहिले हेरम् ककल्ले सोध्दा रैछन् ।
yOuNgBlOoOdZ Posted on 01-15-05 10:47 PM Reply | Notify Admin
kipped
Gokul Posted on 01-16-05 5:26 AM Reply | Notify Admin
epeji,
This is just my attempt to understand the current situation in Nepal and my analysis may sound sometimes naive/far-fetched as well. One may contend that there is even a contradiction between my first and second writing. Perhaps this is an indication of the fluidity of the current situation, which defies any well-defined roadmap and structure.
You are right asking the validity of the assumption that the poison gland is only in the fangs and not throughout the body because every detoxication strategy relies on this very assumption. Since I am not knowledgeable in Nepali constitution, I look forward to reading others' expert opnions.
isolated freak Posted on 01-16-05 7:41 AM Reply | Notify Admin
ook Parmendra,
You are not making any sense. For you, I am not making any sense, for me, you are being very childish. Label me racist, monarchist and everything that you can, but if you have ever taken a class on political science or world history or revolutions or something related to the workings of the state, then remember what you learned on that class. It is very easy to be an arm-chair democrat and revolutionary, its a whole different thing to actually go out on the streets to protest against the system that you oppose from 5000 miles from Nepal.
Also, India was independent beacause the internal consensus and bargaining was supported by the American President, and its an acknowledged fact. I am not making this up. This is a fact. When Churchill went to seek Ameriacn help, FDR told Churchill to grant India independence. Of course, Gandhi's movement was gaining momentum and sooner or later the Brits would have had to leave India to sustain their own economy, the American President's "request" shorthened the Indian independence movement.
Look at every major revolutions, it consists of 2 factors- internal and international. In Nepal's case, democracy in 1990 wouldn't have been possible if the King then had accepted the infamous Surjit Singh PROPOSAL, which I am sure you are aware of. Its also a published fact. The whole proposal has been published by Dhruba Kumar of CNAS and very recently by Keshab Bhattarai (I think this is the name, but not that sure) in a book called Nepal-Bharat Sambandha.
Those are the facts. Also, I did not say Nepal's ethic minorities should be given the sub-sub status, all I am saying is, first promote nationalism, what is it to be a Nepali FIRST and then to be YOU. Then hell, if people agree to have maithali as our national language, i will go learn it because its the official language of the State of Nepal.
Yes, I respect Mahendra for what he did. He tried to balance Nepal's relations with India. Kenneth Waltz once wroite in an essay: Some might think Machiavelli and Bismarck to be unworthy, but we should revive their ideas even if the persons were unworthy(Essay on Biploar World, Balance of Power).
And I respect Birendra too. And I respect Gyannedra too because he is the LEGITIMATE HEAD of the State acording to the Constitution of Nepal, 2047. Since that constitution is my contract with teh state, I have to fulfill my part of the deal. Tomorrow, if there's another system, another constitution, another system of governance, whether an ultra-right headed by the King or any other leader, or the ultra left of the Maoists or any other -ists, I will be loyal to it, because then there will be a new contract or I can choose to be somewhere else. But If I am to be in Nepal, I have to not only support the constitution but be loyal to it, unless the STATE violates my constitutionally guaranted RIGHTS. For me as long as any system can guaranty Nepal's independence and manages to remain independent just as it has been now, or do even better, then I will have no problem with whatever the system. In today's Nepal, however, its the institution of monarchy that has shown that it has the ability to counter any threats to Nepal's idnependence and soverignty. Be it Birendra rejecting the Surjit Singh propsoal to become another Bhutan or be it Gyannedra not inviting the Indian military to deal with the domestic problem. The Indians are already making strategies to deal with the Nepal problem.
Yes, I fear the Indians coming to Nepal. Its not a Mahendran thing, its very close to reality. Nepal's Maoist rebellion is a threat to India's security. No body wants a failed state in its backyard. A failed state in today's world is a major MAJOR security threat for not only for the neighboring states but for the regional stability as well. There'sa report on this Failed States and teh States at Risk, jointly prepared by the Carnegie and the German Institute for Security Studies. Http://www.swp-
berlin.org/common/get_document.php?id=1059
Read this report.
If India does send its troops to Nepal to protect its own Northern States of Bihar and UP, we would have to stay quiet. We ourselves led to that situation. I am not being anti-India, I am one of those few in Nepal who has been saying, hey let's keep our house in order, instead of blaming India for this and that. So don't treat my saying that India will come to seacrh your house as an empty threat. A few more years like this, it will be a reality. You don't have to be an indo-phobic to say this. You can be free of Indo-phobia, be a Nepali and still say it because, coming to Nepal will be the only option left for India to protect its own security interests., just as India intervened in Sri Lanka. I just read excerpts of JN Dixit's Mission Colombo, in which he says, India had to GET involved to protect its security interests.
There are not many choices for Nepal right now. Even if there's an alliance between the Republican forces (independent of the Maoists) and the Maoists themselves, sooner or later they will have to deal with the Maoists demands to establish a Maoist state. The Maoists at this point are not saying they are for a burgeoise(Sp?) Republic of Nepal, they want the People's Republic of Nepal, which is very different than the one man, one vote, many times system. So what stands between these two systems is the Institute of mOnarchy, once that falls in the present scenario, you will only get the People's Republic of Nepal. If you work with it, just as the forces did in Alberto Pinochet's Chile, and start with the economic reforms, FREE MARKET and INSTITUTION building, then eventually you might get your one man, one vote, many times. Any short-cut way will lead to a not so favorable outcome for those who believe in demoratic republicanism.
isolated freak Posted on 01-16-05 7:42 AM Reply | Notify Admin
ppose from 5000 miles from Nepal. = oppose 5000 miles away from Nepal.
isolated freak Posted on 01-16-05 8:22 AM Reply | Notify Admin
o I guess you come from some weird, ignorant school of thought that says constitutions do not matter. The truth is they matter fundamentally. Again, read Lawoti's work on this. Link posted above.
Constitutions do matter only WHEN there are institutions to make sure that its not being vilolated.
Now Nepe Sir,
Tyo link to article atti lamo bhayo. What are your main points, would mind summarizing the piece? I would love to know how you think of achieving an alliance between a burgeoise democracy which you stand for (if I am not mistaken) and a dictatorship of the proletriat, a Maoist state based on Leninist model? What possible alliacnes are there?
1. Power Sharing- Ok, this might work in the short run because everyone needs to come together to reap the benifits of the new system. But sonner or later, the Maoists will demand their own state. They a re a political party with a military. So when there's a Republic of Nepal, they might forge a short term alliance with the burgeoise democracy but sooner or later, maybe sooner than later, they will demand their own state.
2. Divide Nepal: Divide Nepal- Eastern Nepal for us, Western for you? Or Northern Nepal for you, Southern for us? Or resume the civil war?
3. Given the Maoist's military might, just say, you take the state, we will agree to wahtever you say, or whatever state system you prefer.
Although the movement started for equal rights and other socio-economic issues, the movement has now become a political movement whose end goal is to establish their own state. I don't think they will settle for anything less and that makes sense. They have lost more than 8000 of their soldiers for this cause. Their version of the state, if my knowledge of Maoism and Chinese history serves me well, will be:
1. A state based on the Leninist model, in which the state is highly organzied. Everyone comes under the direct control of the state because to execute the command economy, there's no other alternative.
2. No Private Enterprises: No private enterprises will be allowed because private enterprises mean the existence of class system. And the State's goal is to create a class less society.
3. Dictatorship of the Proleteriat or the People's Democratic Dictatorship: This is a very confusing term. What exactly does it mean? It means: Those who support the Proleteriat democracy (one party democracy), then the system will be democratic to those people, if you oppose that, it will be a dicatorship to those. So no opposition.
4. Continuin Revolution: To preserve the fruits of the Revolution, you have to have continous revolutions so that the people's revolutionary ideals do not die out and they don't become reactionary or drift back to petite buregeiose (sp.?).
5. No Elections: The general party committee will choose the Politbureau members, the Politbureau members will choose the State Council members.
These are the main features of a Maoist State. Again, I am not saying its bad or good, I am just saying its different than that of the Burgeoise Republican Democracy. And the differences are not only big, but huge. They have their own idea of the state and you have your own, so how can you achieve a balance and an alliance? This is my question. You stand for your version of the state, the Maoists stand for their version. You represent the Liberals and they represent the Left. Who knows, maybe the people who believe like me will be extinct tomorrow (not even in minority). But s till there will be two groups with two opposing ideas and concepts of the state, just like we have now. So how will the Republican Nepal be different than today's Nepal?
testdirector Posted on 01-16-05 8:25 AM Reply | Notify Admin
read Gokul's defanging theory and is interesting. To put it another way, the theory suggests to get rid of military power attached with the maoists and the monarchy simultaneously.
This is just a showcase theory and is almost impossible unless there is a third-party military invasion. Or unless the monarchy is overthrown and the maoists are rehabilitated by the people and other parties. The time has now gone that maoists will disarm before the king unless they are forced to surrender with cannons pointing at the heads of Babu and Prachanda. Let me forecast that the maoists will not disarm even if the UN is invited for mediation.
I said almost because this covers the possibility of such unwarranted situations where from out of the blue both the comrades and the royal family disappear for some reasons.
Only way is a negotiation with full-repsectble rehabilitation of Comrade Thapa and his force while allowing Babu and Prachanda to be a political power.
A negotiated settlement where the military force of the maoists is allowed to be proudly rehabilitated into the RNA and the political towers are allowed to reincarnate as independant leaders or dissolve, as proudly, into some other parties is the only solution. Of course the monarchy should be nullified as far as the RNA's loyality is concerned (it means Pyar Jung will have to go). This is the most peaceful solution I can think of. All other solution will be way too costly.
isolated freak Posted on 01-16-05 8:36 AM Reply | Notify Admin
orces purported to counteract maoists. THIS IS WHERE THE IDEAL REPUBLICANS FAIL. They have not yet succeeded in showing why this fear is unfounded.
Gokul ji le ni merai jasto question sodhnu bhako raicha.
isolated freak Posted on 01-16-05 12:10 PM Reply | Notify Admin
k Read the relevant part of your piece:
1. My interpretation of all this is that the Maoists and all other communists of Nepal are actually never prepared for 'Naulo janabad'. Their vision ends at the bourgeoisie democracy, the democratic republic of Nepal.
I disagree. Maybe 3 years ago they w ould have settled for a Republican State, but now their aim is to establish The People's Democratic Republic of Nepal. They won't settle for anything else.
2. If, God forbid, the Maoists tried to go beyond that to establish a communist state, then we will have no option but to wipe out the Maoists from the face of Nepal with whatever it takes, from the dirtiest war to military help from our international friends . And we will have a national resolve, unity and legitimacy to do that too.
See you too see the need for national resolve, unity and legitimacy to deal with the Maoist problem. I don't think inviting the foreign troops is a good idea. Plus, Nepal is not 70's vietnam and 50's Korea, no foreign troops will come except for the Indian troops, and they will come uninvited. They won't be in Nepal to get involved in the civil war though, they will just make sure that the Nepali civil war does not cross the borders. That's it. And that's the best case scenario. If they get involved, then they too won't be able to stay for long. They will just go back, leaving the Nepali problem to Nepalis to resolve, but they will have a strong presence alongside the border. Israel, even with a military strategist like Sharon and latest in military hardware, had to leave Lebanon after Gemeyal's murder. Having studied at the Ben Gurion University, named after one of the founding fathers of the state of Israel, I am sure you know more than me about the region's history. In other cases, India had to leave Sri Lanka. America had to resort to getting China's help for a graceful exit from Vietnam. No nation in today's world would like to commit its troops to civil wars in other countries. Only the UN does, but the UN troops do not fight. They just stay there to facilitate peace, whatever it means.
isolated freak Posted on 01-16-05 12:18 PM Reply | Notify Admin
quick note on American military involvement in Nepal, if there's any in the future: The American troops, if they come, which is highly unlikely, will be there to support the institution building to sustain a democratic republic, not to fight the Maoists or other groups. They will not shoot, kill or bomb the Maoist installations unless and until, the Maoists attack them. So we'll be fighting our own war, i.e., civil war.
paramendra Posted on 01-16-05 2:14 PM Reply | Notify Admin
Scenario 1: The bloody stalemate continues
The Maoists keep make sporadic attacks. The king keeps changing Prime Ministers. The parties keep marching against "regression." The common people suffer. Article 127 rules the day. No talks. No parliament. No flexibility on the part of the three players.
Scenario 2: Elections for a new parliament
It is held in phases like in Kashmir. Or Iraq. Afghanistan. The Maoists are not Al Qaeda, the RNA is not the US army. But the Deuba group might manage it. Say holding it in six stages over a period of three months. Something like that. Deuba Congress 40 seats, Koirala Congress 40 seats, UML 70 seats, others 53 seats. UML forms government with Deuba as Deputy Premier. The Maoists manage to create some havoc, even kill a few candidates. And continue to make their sporadic attacks in the aftermath. They stay on like background radiation. But the king has become constitutional. Elected Prime Minister is center-stage.
Scenario 3: MaKuNe as elected prime minister
He engineers a major overhauling of the constitution. 2/3rd of the members vote to bring the army under the parliament. The doubled/tripled royal budget under 127 are reigned in. And he manages to bring the Maoists into the mainstream by successfully organizing elections for a Constituent Assembly, by disarming the Maoists first, and making sure the king stays uninvolved at all stages in the process.
Scenario 4: Deuba tries but fails
The elections are a major flop. Back to scenario 1.
Scenario 5: Constituent Assembly
Probably will not happen under Article 127. The king is dead-set against the idea. He will likely fire an appointed Prime Minister than allow such a thing.
paramendra Posted on 01-16-05 2:16 PM Reply | Notify Admin
epe. Nice numbers. Looks like the yoing blood in the coutry is die-hard republican like you.
Confused Posted on 01-16-05 7:31 PM Reply | Notify Admin
"This is just my attempt to understand the current situation in Nepal and my analysis may sound sometimes naive/far-fetched as well."
Gokul ji, however your analysis may sound,(i am not educated enough on nepali politics to decide) your views are very intresting to read, be it in Science or Politics. Please do make your visit in sajha more frequent so we can enjoy more peace, calm and deep thoughtful posts.
Regarding this post, all i am doing is learning in here, nothing to add.
Nepe Posted on 01-16-05 7:53 PM Reply | Notify Admin
okul ji,
Acoording to the Constitution of Nepal, the National Defense Council which consists of the Prime Minister, the Defense Minister and the Commander in Chief, controls the army. The commander in Chief is chosen by the Prime Minister. Clearly the army should be answerable to the Prime minister.
The loyalty of the army to the King is extra-constitutiona thingl. Perhaps para-constitutional is a better word to describe it because it has been an unexplainable para-normal thing to many political pundits of Nepal. They and even our political parties which are demanding that the army should not be controlled by the King do not know how exactly are they going to change that by re-writing the constitution while retaining the throne.
*************************
Iso Freak,
Once we agree that the Maoists should be disarmed and the King defanged/dethroned, it is not a difficult thing to carry out. Simply they should be done simultaneously. The defanging/dethroning of the King should be made contingent on the disarming of the Maoists. That's all. It is just a simple question of technicalities.
The idea of keeping the King as it is or, worse, empowering him is not going to help anything.
**************************
Paramendra,
Nice numbers ? So you were not aware of this before ? No wonder you thought republicanism is a distant posiibility.
nispaksha Posted on 01-16-05 10:49 PM Reply | Notify Admin
epe ji,
You said:
Where doe the royal loyality come from, if it does not from the constitution ?
र यो ब्रम्हरहस्यलाई एकछिन नखोलि राख्छु । पहिले हेरम् ककल्ले सोध्दा रैछन् ।
isolated freak Posted on 01-17-05 8:03 AM Reply | Notify Admin
lright we are talking now.
Nepe wrote: Iso Freak,
Once we agree that the Maoists should be disarmed and the King defanged/dethroned, it is not a difficult thing to carry out. Simply they should be done simultaneously. The defanging/dethroning of the King should be made contingent on the disarming of the Maoists. That's all. It is just a simple question of technicalities.
Here, who is we? We the people or the political parties? So what are the technicalities involved. Please explain.
Let's look at the historical parallel (I love history): Russia before the Bolshevik takeover. The Romanov monarch abdicated. There was a Provisional Govt. but the provisional govt. was weak, because it could not provide the leadership that the people of Russia were looking for, especially due to the disastrous performance of the economy following the World War I. There was a leadership vaccum, and the Bolshevicks easily took over the government. Even Lenin during his exile in Switzerland hadn't thought that it would be that easy. he had ocne remarked that maybe h would never see a Red Russia in his lifetime! What made the Red Russia possible in Lenin's lifetime was the leadership vaccum that existed in the transitional period.
I see that leadership vaccum in Nepal. Who/which party is promoting Republicanism in Nepal? So even if tomorrow the King decided that he has had enough and abdicates, who is going to take over the state? The democratic or pretending to be democratic parties are weak and it will be very easy for the Maoists to take over. Then comes the Army, will the Army show any resistance against the Maoists if the King abdicates? We are having a civil war in Nepal, not democratic debate, as far as my thinking goes. So the only solution that I see to have burgeoise democrats take control of the nation is: Start a movement with a LEADER who is credible. Girija, Madhav Kumar Nepal have lost their mass appeal. There has to be a new leader, who is a NATIONALIST and who can UNITE the divided -economically, politically and ETHNICALLY- nation, if your dream of a Bureagoise Democracy is to be achieved.
Nepe Posted on 01-17-05 9:30 AM Reply | Notify Admin
he time of Bolsheviks when the communist ideology was virgin, stainless and looked extremely promising does not compare with today when it remains as a flop, stained and unacceptable ideology.
However, you are right that the current top leadership of two major parties NC and UML do not measure up to leading the republic revolution.
माकुने र गिरिजाको राजतन्त्रवादी नेतृत्वको वर्चस्व खतम गरेर गणतन्त्रप्रति रुझान भएका 'स्वच्छ छवि' का नेताहरुको वर्चस्व स्थापना गर्नु गणतान्त्रिक क्रान्ति तर्फ बढ्ने अनेकौं कदमहरु मध्ये एक हो । युवावर्ग, नागरिक समाज र जनसाधारणहरुको बढ्दो गणतान्त्रिक रुझानले पैदा गरेको चापले पार्टीहरुको आन्तरिक क्रान्तिलाई प्रोत्साहन गर्नेछ । त्यसैले अहिलेको समय भनेको गणतन्त्र प्रति व्यापक जनसमर्थन जुटाउन कस्सिएर लाग्नुपर्ने समय हो । (त्यही भएर आशु तिवारी जस्ता गणतान्त्रिक आन्दोलनका प्रतिक्रियावादी दुश्मन हरुको उछित्तो खनेको हो मैले for pure sense of activism for republicanism. I don't have any personal grudge against him )
गणतान्त्रिक अभियान पार्टीहरुको जिर्णोद्धारको निम्ति मात्रै होईन, माओवादीको अपरिभाषित एक्काइसौं शताब्दीको जनवादको विरुद्ध पनि हो र राजाको महत्वाकांक्षाको विरुद्ध पनि हो । वास्तवमा गणतन्त्र नेपालको ईतिहासको यो घडीमा जादुको त्यो छडी नै हो जसले सबैलाई- पार्टीहरु, माओवादी र राजालाई- ठीक ठाउँमा ल्याउँछ ।
यस समय गणतन्त्रको विरुद्दमा लाग्नेहरु अज्ञानी, निराशावादी र दासहरु हुन् ।
isolated freak Posted on 01-17-05 10:03 AM Reply | Notify Admin
यस समय गणतन्त्रको विरुद्दमा लाग्नेहरु अज्ञानी, निराशावादी र दासहरु हुन् ।
Nahuna pani sakchan. Tapaiko yo brihat bakya lai ma samarthan gardina. BUrjuwa Prajatantrik Ganatantra Nepal ki ta bandai bandaina, banyo bhane pani, safal hundaina. Yuba haroo ko josh ra vote lai tyatti mahatwa nadinus. Aja jo jossiye, bholi ti selauchan. Ra ahile ko paristhiti ma, joon bela desh ko saxyam yuba shakti bahiriyeko cha, kaam ko laagi, padhai ko lagi ya desh bata ajit bhayera, ti jossine yuba haroo lai syabas bhannu bhanda tini haroo sita daraunu parcha, kina bhane, tyastai chahine-nachahine samaya ma tattiyeka yuba haroo le garda Khumeni lai power ma lyao Iran ma.
Ok, what i am trying to say is:
When you analyze politics of any given country, one important thing to look at is the recent demographic shifts in that country, especially in the cities. Kathmandu's population has almost doubled in the last 10 years. People are migrating en masse to Kathmandu. Also Nepal's population is quite young. So these youths in kathmandu, who migrate from therural areas, not necessarily for their higher education is the group that makes the majority of all those Pratigaman rallies and all that because they are either unemployed, underemployed or underpaid. That's the angry youth population, who is very easily persuaded. They are the ones who will go destroy the jame masjid and burn the Qatar Airlines office, without thinking what their actions mean or will be translated within Nepal and elsewhere. So you see these people chanting pro-Republican slogans in Ratnapartk as a good thing, I don't. For me these are the people who are angry and they have their own reasons to be angry. And when people are angry, when the mob is angry, they will elect, choose whoever can exploit their angry mood, for example, Kumeni in Iran.
This is all from my side to this discussion.
isolated freak Posted on 01-17-05 10:09 AM Reply | Notify Admin
ere, I forgot to add one thing:
If you ahve contacts in Nepal, ask them to carry out a survey during one of those Pratigaman Biruddha rallies, with these questions:
Age Group
Place of Birth
Education
Their reasons to be in Kathmandu [Education/Employment/Something Else]
Are You Employed?
The reasons that you are in the Rally [ I believe in democracy/ My friend is partcipating so I came along to see/ I have nothing else to do]
isolated freak Posted on 01-17-05 10:18 AM Reply | Notify Admin
ither unemployed, underemployed or underpaid
Let me explain this: During the Great Depression in America and Europe, a survey was carried out by Gallup. 87% said they would support Russia if there was a war between Russia and Germany. Also look at the development of fascism and how it spread all over the globe: unemployed, underemployed and underpaid people became the brand ambassador of fascism. So the time is not so favorable for a Burjuwa Prajatantrik Ganatantra of Nepal.
isolated freak Posted on 01-17-05 10:28 AM Reply | Notify Admin
et me explain this: During the Great Depression in America and Europe, a survey was carried out by Gallup in America. 87% said they would support Russia if there was a war between Russia and Germany.
America managed to control the spread of fascism in its territory, others were not lucky. From Italy and Germany, it spread everywhere because the whole world was danwa-dol. Also it brought to power through democratic elections, Hitler and Mussolini.
Alright done enough explaining, if it makes sense, that's fine. If it doesn't, that's fine too.
Nepe Posted on 01-17-05 10:37 AM Reply | Notify Admin
ispaksha ji,
First of all I must thank you for being साँच्चिकै निस्पक्ष in your previous postings. Particularly I appreciate your pointing out to Ashu how he is confusing 'what should be' with 'what will be'. And of course your frank remark about Nepe's आफुसंग विमति राखने हरुको उछित्तो खन्ने काम ।
As I have admitted in the previous posting, I do उछित्तो खन्ने काम, but not to all आफुसंग विमति राखने हरु. It is only to certain category of people. विमति त यहाँ साझामा लगभग सबैसंग राख्छु कुनै न कुनै कुरामा । From Gokul ji ( on philosophy) to Sitara (on faith) to Biswo (on issues like abortion and Sanskrit for Nepal) to Paschim ( on republicanism) and everybody else. उनिहरुप्रति मेरो कत्रो श्रद्धा र सम्मान छ ।
अब लागौं ब्रम्हरहस्यको कुरा तिर ।
यो ब्रम्हरहस्य मैले साझामा यस अघि खोल्दै नखोलेको चाहीं होईन । ल हेर्नुस मेरा यी पाल्सी शब्दहरु एउटा पुरानो posting बाट (हाम्रा पानी पण्डित दीपक ज्ञवालीले टिके मन्त्री भएर प्रजातान्त्रिक नागरिक समाजप्रति बेबफाई गरे भन्ने मेरो अप्रसन्नताबाट भड्केका आशु र अरुहरु संग मेरो शास्त्रार्थ बाट उद्धरण गरेको )
- http://www.sajha.com/archives/openthread.cfm?threadid=11327&dsn=sajhaarchive2003
"In a plain and simple language Gyanedra abused dhara 127. If you want, I can show you it's letter does not give him any right to take over the executive power against Prime minister's will. I can also show you other article and clauses that does not allow him to take over the power on his own discretion.
Still, I am not saying that Gyanendra Maharaj ko kadam was unconstitutional. It was neither unconstitutional nor constitutional. In fact, it has nothing to do with the constitution. Yes, Sajha folks, you heard me right. Gyanendra Maharaj lied to you. This lier did not use the clause 127 of the constitution to take over the power. He actually used the clause 001 of the paraconstitution of Nepal. Ever heard about it ? No, na ? Let me introduce you with it. This is a very old sambidhaan, let's say, more than 200 years old. There aren't too many clauses in this paraconstitution, but they are clear cut about what they say. No way to make alternative interpretation like 2047 ko constitution. All right, so the clause 001 of it states that the Royal Nepali Army shall be fiercely loyal to the monarch. This is the clause which Gyanendra Maharaj had used to kick out Deuba and take over the executive power. Had Gyanendra only used the clause 127 of the 2047 ko sambidhan, Deuba could have easily kick Gyanendra's ass and declare on the national TV that he still is the prime minister of Nepal."
harkedai Posted on 01-17-05 5:32 PM Reply | Notify Admin
ba chai sambidhan ko ek copy chai ma pani rakhnu parla jasto cha. K ho k ho ? Sabai ko aafnai defination. Big G ko aafnai, raaj bhakta ko aafnai, republican ko aafnai, aru sabai ko pani aafnai. O ho nepe daju lai jadau garnai birseko, jadau gare hai dajju. Hoina daju yeuta kura kya, yedi tapai le bheneko jastai hudo ho ta, world community, ajha hamro mitra rastra k herera baseko ta ? Army ta raja ko bafadar, pahila pani thyo, ahile pani cha ra bhawisya ma pani hune cha teshma malai ta kunai doubt chaina, tara kura aayo, yedi raja eklai ko nirnaya testo hune bhaye, aru le birodh kina garenan ta ? Nepal ma tetra sambidhan bid haru chan tini haru ko ghaita ma ghaam kina laagena ta ? Nepali janata lai "jo nepal ma nai baschan" nepal ko sambidhan ko gyan chaina hola ra ? Yedi Big G le dictator ship nai kaayam garna khoje ko ho bhane India or china especially India le accept garcha hola ta ? Hamra maobadi ra Big G ma kunai link huna sakne sambhawana kelauna sakidaina ta ? Royal family ma tetro ghatana huda maobadi le tyo opportunity ko faida kina uthayenan ?
Khai k ho k ho ? Ma sanga ta khali question matra cha, nepe dajju ra aru dajju haru pani hai pheri, yo mathi ka kura ta tapai haru ko bicha ma bhai raako kura link hola nahola, maile sabai posting padina. bhako bhako ko matra uttar diye pani huncha.
Ani ammai jhandai birseko
What I have understood till now about article 127 is " dhara 127 le baki sabai dhara ko pani sukaucha ta sabai jaha dhara 127 ko owner kaha nai jaanu parcha re kya" maile bujheko thi ho ki hoina. Ahile tyo dhara 127 ko owner chai hamro Big G. Yesh ma maile bujheko kati ra bujhna baki chai kati ho ? Ani yo 001 number ko dhara chai kata bata aayo ?
Lau Jai hos Nepal aama ko
ra tinka santan ko (some exceptional exists)
nispaksha Posted on 01-17-05 7:14 PM Reply | Notify Admin
hanks for revealing the puzzle.
Though I appreciate your ideological clarity and consistent activism for republican democracy in Nepal, I am not much impressed by this latest revelation of yours. During the formulation of current constitution, it was well known that palace wanted to retain some power and institution of RNA also needed a credible institution to rely on. So, there are some vague provisions in the constitution such as Security Council and mobilization of RNA under the order of the King. What the elected politicians should have done is, give clarity to such provisions by operational practices. For example, King Birendra could not have dared to intervene if the elected prime minister had attempted to reform RNA.
Constitution is just one component of formal institution and what is important in the real world is the informal institutions. Usually change and reforms are realized in the form of formal institutions (such as constitution), which are supposed to bring changes in the informal institutions (power relationships and others). But the new constitution of 2047 and political leadership could not generate kind of momentum that is strong enough to break down the old informal institutions (in leftist lexicon the feudal socio-economic structure). Rather the new leadership found it handy to negotiate for some accommodating space within the old informal institutions (such as UML saw big opportunity in NGO industry).
So, Nepe ji, the barrier to republicanism is not King or palace (in fact they are helping it with Raj Parisad like saga); it is the mindset of Nepali people. The unique characteristic of Nepalese people is: Willingness to claim political stakes WITHOUT taking due risks. That always makes them to follow a supposedly easy but muddled path which ends up consolidating the very institutions, which they claim are fighting against.
We know majority of Nepali intellectual think that it is not up to Nepali people to decide on the political future, it is the foreign powers, who decide on this matter. We are too good to demonstrate our patriotism through vandalism but too weak even to THINK, let alone to ACT that we CAN decide on what political system we want.
-Nispaksha
Nepe Posted on 01-17-05 10:06 PM Reply | Notify Admin
निस्पक्ष जी,
तपाई मेरो "रहस्योदघाटन" बाट प्रभावित नभएर ठीकै भएको छ, किनभने तपाईले हाम्रो राज्यसत्ताको खाका बारे यस्ता मिहिन प्रश्नहरु उठाउनुभयो जसको अक्सर गोलमटोलीकरण भएको देख्छु मेरो पहुँचको छलफलहरुमा । यस्ता मिहिन प्रश्नहरु बेगर अहिलेको सबभन्दा ठूलो प्रश्न '२०४७ को संविधानको असफलता प्रणालीजनित हो कि व्यक्तिजनित हो ?' को सही उत्तर भेटिने छैन र यो उत्तर बेगर संबिधान पुनर्लेखन, परिमार्जन, अक्षरश: कार्यान्वयन, क्रान्ति वा कुनै पनि प्रकारको परिवर्तनको मतलबपूर्ण कुरा गर्न सकिदैन ।
तपाईले उठाउनु भएका सबालहरुले, स्पष्टै छ, हाम्रो सम्विधानको र सत्ता चलाउन पुगेका सबैको कामको व्यापक शल्यक्रियाको माग गर्दछन् । यो वृहद काम म एक्लैको बुता, समय र यो थ्रेडको आयतनले भ्याउने कुरा होईन । त्यसैले एकाध बुँदामा केही संक्षिप्त टिप्पणी मात्र गर्न चाहन्छु ।
Nepe Posted on 01-17-05 10:07 PM Reply | Notify Admin
१. सेनाको राजाप्रतिको वफादारीको श्रोतलाई मैले अतिरिक्त-सम्वैधानिक (परा-सम्वैधानिक) भनें । भावमा मेरो अडान त्यही भएपनि तपाईलाई प्रभावित पार्ने मनसायले ल मैले मानें- त्यसको जड २०४७ को सम्विधानभित्रै छ । तर कहाँ छ त त्यो ? सम्विधानको मेरो पठन र मनन दुवैमा मैले त्यसलाई सम्विधानको अक्षरहरुमा देखिन । राजालाई सम्विधानले राजाको झुपडी भित्रको मामला र हकवाला तोक्ने बाहेक अरु कुनै कुरा पनि आफ्नै तजबिजमा गर्न पाउने हक लेखेर दिएको छैन । "प्रधानमन्त्रीको सिफारिशमा श्री ५ बाट गरिबक्सनेछ" भनेको "राजालाई त्यो अधिकार छैन" भनेर स्पष्ट भनेको हो ।
तथापि मेरो कवि आँखाले हेर्दा भने तीनै शब्दहरुले राजालाई उनले आँटेको खण्डमा ती अधिकारहरु दिएको देख्छु । यसो भनौं, ती शब्दहरुका सोझा अर्थहरुले हैन कि ती शब्दहरुका चालढाल, जिउ मर्काई, आँखा सन्काई, सिंगार पटारले राजाको ईच्छा जागे नाजायज सम्बन्धको लागि झ्यालबाट पोटुका खसालेको छ ।
कुनै रसिक शायरले लेखेका थिए-
एक ही मायने नही रखती तुम्हारी हर 'नही'
एक झुझलाकर 'नही', एक मुस्कुराकार 'नही'
Nepe Posted on 01-17-05 10:07 PM Reply | Notify Admin
२. संक्रमणकालिन सरकार (जसलाई अरुसंग तुलना गर्न मिल्दैन) पछिका सबै सरकारहरु अपवाद बिना (हुन त कोही ९ महिने एमाले सरकारलाई आंशिक "सफल" सरकार भन्छन्, तर स्थायित्व पनि त कडी हो सफलाताको) निर्विवाद असफल भए, आर्थिक- सामाजिक सुधारका मामला देखि तपाईले प्रस्ताव गर्नु भएको 'कार्य पद्धतिद्वारा प्रजातान्त्रिक सत्ताको सुस्पष्टिकरण को काम' सम्म । यसमा मेरो विमति छैन । तर यसो हुनुको कारण के हो त ? शायद यो कारणको पहिचान र त्यसको निदानको मामलामा हामी बेग्लै छौ भन्ने छनक पाउछु म । ल पहिला तपाई हाल्नुस तपाईको कुरा, अनि म हालौंला मेरो । मलाई विश्वास छ तपाईका कुराले म लाभान्वित हुनेछु र मेरा कुराले तपाई मनोरन्जित हुनुहुनेछ ।
लौ त बाँकी अर्को खेपमा ।
Dada Giri Posted on 01-18-05 2:06 AM Reply | Notify Admin
वास्तवमा गणतन्त्र नेपालको ईतिहासको यो घडीमा जादुको त्यो छडी नै हो
!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?
Yo kura malaai katti pani chitta bujhya chhaina. Tara tyas agadi sabai heram hai ta. Lamo lamo postings ayechha.
nispaksha Posted on 01-18-05 7:04 AM Reply | Notify Admin
नेपे जी,
गाँठि कुरा के हो भने नेपालमा कोहि पनि धर्मको बाटोमा हिँडेनन् । राजा, नेता र वुद्धिजीबि लगायतका सबै वर्ग र पेसाका जनहरुले अधर्मको बाटो समाते । मैले यहाँ भन्न खोजेको धर्म पशुपतीको दर्शन वा दक्षिण कालीमा बोकाको वली चडाएर गरिने कर्मकाण्डी धर्म होईन । यस सन्दर्भमा धर्मको अर्थ आफ्नो कर्तव्य पथमा रहि निष्फल कर्म गर्नु हो । भन्नुस त नेपालमा आफ्नो कर्तव्य पथको पहिचान गरि तद्अनुसारको कर्म गर्ने कति छन् ? नेपाली जनहरुलाई आफ्नो भन्दा अरुको कर्म गर्नुमा आनन्द आउने जस्तो देखिन्छ । राजा, गुट-नाईके जस्ता; सम्भ्रान्त, चोर वा भीखमगा जस्ता; नेता, कार्यकर्ता जस्ता; कर्मचारी, ठेकेदार जस्ता; वुद्धिजीबि, नेता जस्ता; आदी आदि, होईन त? यसको नतिजा के हुन्छ भन्दा, गीताको यो श्लोक बुझौँ
nispaksha Posted on 01-18-05 7:04 AM Reply | Notify Admin
श्रेयान् स्वधर्मो विगुण?????? परधर्मात् स्वनुष्ठितात् ।
स्वधर्मे निधनम् श्रेय????? पर धर्मो भयावह ।।
अर्थात, अरुको धर्म (कर्तव्य) मा पूर्णता हासिल गर्नु भन्दा अपूर्ण भए पनि आफ्नै कर्तव्य पथमा गरिने कर्म श्रेयस्कर हुन्छ । अर्काको कर्तव्य पथमा हिड्नु भन्दा त आफ्नो कर्तव्य पथमा आउने मृत्यु धेरै उत्तम हुन्छ, किनभने अर्काको कर्तव्य पथमा हिड्दाको परिणाम सधै भएङ्कर डरलाग्दो हुन्छ ।
नेपेजी, अब तपाई भन्नु होला यो त आग्राको र गाग्राको कुरा जस्तो भएन र ? छैन, तपाईले उठाउनु भएको प्रश्नको उत्तर यसै भीत्र पाईन्छ । कसरी ? भनी सोध्नुस न ! तब सम्म म पनि यो रहस्यलाई नखोलौँ ल ?
निष्पक्ष
Nepe Posted on 01-18-05 1:05 PM Reply | Notify Admin
निष्पक्षजी,
नेपालमा कोहि पनि स्वधर्मको बाटोमा हिँडेनन् भन्ने कुरा धेरै हदसम्म सही हो तर गाँठी कुरो यो होईन । मेरो विचारमा गाँठी कुरो त किन हिडेनन् त भन्ने प्रश्न हो ? नेपालीहरु स्वधर्मको बाटोमा हिंड्नै नसक्ने वा हिंडाउनै नसकिने जाती हुन् भनेर भन्न खोज्नु भएको अवश्यै होईन निष्पक्षजीले । कि हो ? होईन भने किन हिंडेनन् वा हिंडाउन सकिएन, त्यो हो गाँठी कुरा ।
४० भन्दा बढी भोटो फटाईसकेको छु मैले र मलाई सोध्नुहुन्छ भने उपयुक्त वातावरण दिएमा आजको समय सुहाउदो स्वधर्मपालन गर्न सक्नेमा नेपाली भन्दा बेहतर जाती अरु देखेको छैन मैले ।
फेरि राजनीतिक बाहेक अरु क्षेत्रलाई दोष दिने भनेको बदमास मालिकको दोष उसको निरिह कमारोलाई पनि दिनु जस्तै हो ।
अनि, २०४७ यताको राजनैतिक नेतृत्व नराम्रोसित नष्टभ्रष्ट र स्वधर्मपालनमा विफल भएपनि केही व्यक्तिहरुको incompetence बाट भएको होईन त्यो । त्यो सामुहिक पतन थियो र त्यसका पछाडी धर्मको खाका जिम्मेवार छ भन्ने मेरो जिरिह छ । धर्मको खाका निरपेक्ष रुपमै खराब भनेको चाही होईन है मैले । ईतिहासको फरक कालमा हुँदो हो त यो एक आदर्श धर्म हुन सक्थ्यो भन्नेमा मलाई अविश्वास छैन ।
Nepe Posted on 01-18-05 1:06 PM Reply | Notify Admin
धर्मको खाका त्यस्तो बन्यो जसले डोरीमा, डोरीमा पनि हैन- खुकुरीको धारमा हिड्न चाहिने एक सेकेण्ड पनि टुट्न नहुने सतर्कता, एक मिलीमिटर पनि डगमगाउन नहुने सन्तुलन, एकदिन पनि बिदा लिन नहुने बुद्धिमत्ताको माग गरयो । अर्को शब्दमा, ideal individual हरुले मात्र सफलतापूर्वक चलाउन सक्ने धर्मको निर्माण गरयौं हामीले । Real individual हरुले पनि चलाउन सक्ने बलियो धर्मको निर्माण गर्न पट्टी लागेनौं हामी । र डेढ दशक खेर फाल्यौं । गाँठी कुरो यो हो ।
धर्म लटरपटर भए नि धर्मपालकहरुले विवेक निकानेर चलाए भईहाल्यो नि भन्ने लटरपटरवादले बिगारेको हो हाम्लाई ।
लटरपटरवादबाट मुक्ति र स्पष्टवादको अंगिकार आजको आवश्यकता र समयको माग हो ।
अनि राजालाई उनको ईच्छा विरुद्ध हतकडी लगाएर, नजरबन्द गरेर राख्ने प्रजातन्त्रको torture दिन छाडौं । राजालाई यस्तो प्रजातन्त्र भन्दा त राणाशासन नै बेसी राम्रो होईन र ? No wonder शाही परिवारले राणाजीहरुलाई भन्दा अरुलाई कमै पत्याए, मान गर्ने त कुरै छाडौं ।
शाही परिवारलाई जीवनभर नजरबन्द गरेर सास्तीमा राखने होईन नेपालको स्वतन्त्र नागरिक भएर फुक्का बाँच्न दिऔं । यसैमा सबैको कल्याण र आनन्द छ ।
Nepe Posted on 01-18-05 7:08 PM Reply | Notify Admin
एउटा सान्दर्भिक समाचार आजको कान्तिपुर दैनिक बाट ........
कांग्रेस विधानमा 'राजतन्त्र' हटाउन बहस
कान्तिपुर संवाददाता
काठमाडौं, माघ ५ - प्रतिगमनविरुद्ध आन्दोलनरत कांग्रेसले पार्टी विधानमा राजतन्त्र राख्ने कि नराख्ने सवालमा औपचारिक छलफल सुरु गरेको छ । स्थापनाकालदेखि नै संवैधानिक राजावादी कांग्रेसमा पहिलो पटक राजतन्त्रको औचित्यमाथि बहस भएको हो ।
'पचास वर्षेखिको अनुभव र अभ्यासलाई ध्यानमा राख्दा पार्टी विधानमा राजसंस्थाको उल्लेख गर्नु के कति आवश्यक र औचित्यपूर्ण छ -' भन्ने प्रश्नमा कांग्रेसले मंगलबार पार्टी निकट बुद्धिजीवीसँग राय लियो ।
कांग्रेसले आगामी महाधिवेशनमा प्रस्तुत गर्ने नीति र कार्यक्रम तय गर्न प्रस्तावित अवधारणापत्रमा 'आजको युग राजतन्त्रको होइन प्रजातन्त्रको हो' भन्दै उक्त प्रश्नमा अन्तक्रिर्या गरेको हो । पार्टी तर्फ बाट नीति तथा कार्यक्रम विभाग प्रमुख रामचन्द्र पौडेलले उक्त अवधारणापत्र प्रस्तुत गर्नुभएको थियो ।
Nepe Posted on 01-18-05 7:09 PM Reply | Notify Admin
पौडेलका अनुसार अवधारणापत्रमाथिको बहसलाई पार्टी अञ्चल र जिल्लामा समेत लाने भएको छ । कांग्रेसले अवधारणापत्रमा प्रतिनिधिसभाको पुनःस्थापना गर्ने र माओवादीलाई वार्तामा ल्याई हतियारको राजनीति अन्त्य गर्ने सहमतिसहित संसद्ले संविधानसभाको घोषणा गर्ने कार्यसूची प्रस्ताव गरेको छ ।
कांग्रेसको नीति तथा कार्यक्रम विभागद्वारा अवधारणापत्रमाथि छलफल गर्न राजधानीमा मंगलबार आयोजित छलफलमा अधिकांश बुद्धिजीवीले महाधिवेशनमा विधानबाट राजसंस्था हटाउनुपर्ने राय दिए ।
प्राध्यापक संघका निवर्तमान अध्यक्ष खगेन्द्र भट्टर्राईले राजाबाट जनतालाई बारम्बार धोका दिएर प्रजातन्त्र खोस्ने काम भएको उल्लेख गर्दै युवाको सोचअनुरूप कांग्रेसलाई गणतन्त्रमा जान सुझाव दिनुभयो । 'मुलुकका लागि संवैधानिक राजतन्त्र अपरिहार्य छ भन्ने कुरामै कांग्रेसले पुनर्विचार गर्नुपर्छ,' उहाँको भनाइ थियो ।
प्राध्यापक संघका पूर्व अध्यक्ष भीमसेनदास प्रधानले प्रजातन्त्र र राजतन्त्र सँगै हिंड्न नसकेको अनुभवबाट पाठ सिकेर कांग्रेसले महाधिवेशनबाट राजतन्त्रको औचित्यकै बारे ठोस निर्णय लिनुपर्ने बताउनुभयो ।
Nepe Posted on 01-18-05 7:11 PM Reply | Notify Admin
प्राध्यापक लोकराज बरालले पनि कांग्रेसले विधानमा राजतन्त्र राख्नु जरुरी नरहेको विचार व्यक्त गर्नुभयो । महाधिवेशनले विधानबाट राजतन्त्र हटाएमा कांग्रेस संवैधानिक राजावादीबाट लोकतन्त्रवादी पार्टी हुनेछ ।
अवधारणापत्रमा कांग्रेसले राजतन्त्रको अस्तित्व कायम राख्ने हो भने राजाबाट अहिलेसम्मका सम्पूर्ण राजकीय विशेषाधिकार त्याग्नुपर्ने, राजगद्दी उत्तराधिकारसम्बन्धी ऐन-नियम संसद्बाट निर्मित र निर्देशित हुन दिनुपर्ने उल्लेख छ ।
पूर्व सांसद मानबहादुर विश्वकर्माले पन्ध्र सालमा कांग्रेसको साथमा रहेका दलित र जनजाति वर्ग आज किन टाढा भएका हुन् भन्ने सवालमा पार्टी गम्भीरतापूर्वक सोचेर नीति बनाउनुपर्ने औंल्याउनुभयो ।
बाह्र वर्षम्म शासनमा रहँदा कांग्रेसले समाजवादको नीति कागजमा सीमित राखेको गुनासोसमेत बुद्धिजीवीहरूको थियो । हरेक जाति/जनजातिले आफ्नो हक खोज्न थालेको उल्लेख गर्दै कांग्रेसले त्यसलाई सम्बोधन गर्न सकेन भने दूर्भाग्यपूर्ण हुने चेतावनी पनि उनीहरूको थियो ।
Nepe Posted on 01-18-05 7:12 PM Reply | Notify Admin
विभाग प्रमुख पौडेलले बुद्धिजीवीहरूको सुझावलाई पार्टी नीति र कार्यक्रममा समावेश गर्ने बताउनुभयो । 'मुलुकले परिवर्तन खोजेको छ । परिवर्तनको नेतृत्व गर्न सकेन भने कांग्रेस किनारा लाग्छ' भन्दै उहाँले महाधिवेशनबाट राजनीतिक, आर्थिक र सामाजिक रूपान्तरणका पक्षमा ठोस निर्णय हुने बताउनुभयो ।
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ruina Posted on 01-18-05 7:35 PM Reply | Notify Admin
hy is it like this????i can only see question marks??/whats wrong??
laaaaaaaaaaaa mero akha lai k bhayo...mero computer lai k bhayo hehehe...what type of font are u using?khoi nepe ra nispaksha ji le lekheko herum bhaneko kehi bujeena.
Dada_Giri Posted on 01-19-05 5:43 AM Reply | Notify Admin
ear friends,
निस्पक्ष जीको प्रर्स्तुती शैलीले मलाई त एक पटक चिसो पानीको पोखरीमा चुर्लुम्म डुबुल्की हालेर निस्केको जस्तो आभाष दियो। भने नेपे जीका भनाइहरु पनि उत्तिकै मीठा।
गाँठि कुरालाई सिधै राख्नु पर्दा अब यहाँ हामीले, दाइमाडो हाल्दाखेरि घुमाइएका गोरु जस्तै एकै ठाँऊमा फनफनि धेरै फन्का लगाउनु भन्दा एक खुड्किलो अगाडि बढेर कुरा गर्दा पनि दुनियालाई खासै आपत्ति नहोला कि।
मैले भन्न खोज्या कुरा के भने, अब हामि यतातिर पनि छलफल गर्नतिर लाग्ने थाल्ने बेला भयो कि,
सानातिना सबै कुरालाई थाँति राख्दै, एकातिर राजतन्त्रलाई निस्कृय पार्ने र अर्कातिर अहिले अन्याय अत्याचारबाट पिल्सिएर गणतन्त्रमा हाम्फाल्न खोज्ने, आन्दोलनामा उत्रिएका सबैलाई एकै ठाऊँमा राखेर साँप पनि मर्ने र लट्ठी पनि नभावचिने, यो हाम्रो जल्दोबल्दो समस्या निको पार्ने उत्तम औषधी केही हुन सक्ला कि? त्यो जादुको छडि कहाँ छ होला? कोसित छ होला?
Dada_Giri Posted on 01-19-05 5:49 AM Reply | Notify Admin
नेपालका लागि यो सबै कुरा @नयाँ ठेकिमा पुरानो मही@ भन्या जस्तो पनि नहोस् भने अर्कोतिर साँप पनि मरोस् लट्ठी पनि नभाँचियोस्।
एउटा मेरो मनमा लाग्या कुरा के भने नि,
राजाले कम्तिमा कतिसम्म लचिलो हुनुपर्यो। अहिले आन्दोलरत माओबादीहरु कतिसम्म लचिलो हुनु पर्यो।
यी दुई नदिका किनारालाई एउटै बिन्दुमा मिलाउने चुनामी के हुन सक्ला?
नेपे जीले भन्नुहुन्छ मलाई थाहा छ। राजाले कि त स्वबिबेकले श्रृपेच फुकाल्न सक्नु पर्छ जनताको लागि केही गर्ने हो भने, कि त जनाताले कताललो समातेर घोक्रे ठ्याक लाउन सक्नु पर्छ नत्र यसले दिने वाला छैन।
मैले यहाँ जान्न चाहेको के भने नि, कम्तिमा राजा कति लचिलो हुनुपर्यो त? र माओबादीको सबभन्दा लचकता भनेको कस्तो हुन सक्ला।
दुबैको लागि Lower Limit के हुन सक्ला?
Dada_Giri Posted on 01-19-05 6:02 AM Reply | Notify Admin
y the way thanks Nepe Jee for posting the news from Kantipur.
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नेपालि काग्रेसले कार्यकर्तालाई भेडा बनाउँदै आएको छ। नेपाली कान्ग्रेसले १३ वर्षे शाषनकालमा गरेको ब्रम्हलुटबाट चिढिएका यसैका कार्यकर्ता अब गणतन्त्र भनिने पल्लो चौरमा हरियो घाँस भएको मृगतरष्णामा पर्न तालेका छन्। यी बेडाहरु कतै पल्लो चौरतिर हरियो घाँस कानलाई हाम्पाल्ने त हैनन् भन्ने जगजगीले गर्दा अब नेपाली कान्ग्रेसले पल्लो छौर पनि त हाम्रै हक (बिधान)भित्र पर्छ नि भनेर बिधानमाथि सम्सोधन गर्ने उछेतो हर्दैछ। यसले माओबादीहरुको क्रान्ति पछि पनि फेरि नेपाली कान्ग्रेस सत्तामा जाने त हैन।
॥
#नयाँ ठेकिमा पुरानो महि# भन्या यही हो।
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nispaksha Posted on 01-19-05 7:05 AM Reply | Notify Admin
epe ji, Dada giri ji
लौ हेर ! यै बेलामा काँग्रेसीजनहरु पनि हाम्रा गणतन्त्रपूरका बिदुरको रथमा चढ्न खुट्टा उचालेका । बधाई छ नेपे जी !!! परन्तु दादागिरी जीका मलुवा पाईनका गहकिला तर्क तर्फ पनि ध्यान जाओस् है । कहिले काँहि यी काँग्रेसीजनहरु 'घर पोलेर खरानि बेच्ने उद्योग' पनि चलाउँछन् ।
निख्रेर भन्नु पर्दा राजनितीको दीर्घकालिन सन्तुलनको बिन्दु गणतन्त्र नै हो, तथापी मुल कुरा दीर्घकाल कति लामो काल भन्ने हो । दश-बीस बर्ष भए त ठिकै होला, असी-सय बर्ष भए के नि ? कि नेपे जी ले नाती गणतन्त्रको बात गर्नु भएको हो ।
मेरो बिचारमा त नेपे जी ले जिरह गर्नु भएको गणतन्त्रको बिन्दु मा पुग्नु पहिले नेपालको राजनितीले या त माओबादीको उखर्माउलो तातो जनबादी चौतारिमा या त राजतन्त्रको सेपीलो छहारिमा केहि बेर भए पनि विश्राम लिने जस्तो देखिन्छ । यो मेरो 'के हुनु पर्छ' भन्ने बिचार नभै 'के होला भन्ने' तर्क मात्रै हो है ! यसमा द्विविधा नरहोस् ।
- निष्पक्ष
Gokul Posted on 01-19-05 8:06 AM Reply | Notify Admin
ispakshajee,
You correctly identified the Humean "is-ought" problem in Nepali politics. However, as Searl proposes, the implicit "promise" of ought is what binds us all to its moral imperatives thereby making "ought" more important than "is".
Nepe Posted on 01-19-05 10:20 AM Reply | Notify Admin
भनेसी, गणतन्त्रको कुरा कति शिघ्र कति विलम्बित होला भन्ने अडकलबाजीको मियोमा घुम्याघुम्यै हुने भो ।
मेरो विचारमा यसरी फनफनी घुमेर रिंगटा लगाएर बस्न छाडेर शिघ्रतामा कल्याण लागे सोको निम्ति र विलम्बमा कल्याण लागे सोको निम्ति योगदान दिनुपर्ने समय हो यो । पाखामा बसेर तमाशा हेर्ने वा कछाड उचाली उचाली सप्पैलाई सत्तोसराप गर्ने वा दादागिरिले एक ठाउँमा भन्नु भा जस्तो डामेर छाड्या साँढे जस्तो डुँक्रिरहने ट्याम होईन यो ।
गोकुलजीले मनासिब कुरा गर्नु भो । 'के होला' भन्ने हात बँधाईले हामीलाई एक्ल्याउँछ, 'के हुनु पर्ने हो' भन्ने हात हलाईले हामीलाई जुटाउँछ, खटाउँछ ।
U_2 Posted on 01-19-05 6:34 PM Reply | Notify Admin
ooking at King G's continued ambition, and the mess that he has created in Nepal, it is very likely that he will be the last King in Nepal, thus making the prophecy -- king Prithvi Narayan?s line will last only upto the tenth generation -- to come true. And, who would want eccentric Paras (if you read his name in reverse, it is SARAP, i.e. a curse), becoming a king in future.
Perhaps, only advantage of keeping monarchy, if we keep it at all, will be to use it as a cultural symbol, to promote exotic image of Nepal in the world, very much like we have Kumari. A Himalayan kingdom, with a 200 year old royal institution would sound surely exotic (at least to tourists). But, never mind that, in 200 years, hardly there have been a single king, who was competent even to rule (most of the time Nepal was ruled by regents, Bahadur Shah, Bhimsen Thapa, some Maha Ranis, and later for 104 years by Ranas). Not a single king has been there, who is worth to remember!
paramendra Posted on 01-20-05 11:13 PM Reply | Notify Admin
I Report - Nepal: Illegal killings on the increase
News Release Issued by the International Secretariat of Amnesty
International
AI Index: ASA 31/002/2005 20 January 2005
Nepal: Illegal killings on the increase
The number of people who are being illegally killed in Nepal is
increasing
and those responsible are using more sophisticated tactics to hide
their
crimes, according to a new report by Amnesty International.
"Both the security forces and the Maoists are deliberately executing
civilians and unarmed fighters" said Ingrid Massage, Asia Director at
Amnesty International. "What is most chilling is that these killings
are
going completely unpunished, despite numerous promises by the
government and
Maoist leaders to uphold human rights."
The report, Nepal: Killing with impunity, gives details of many people
who
have been unlawfully killed by both sides to the conflict since the
breakdown of a ceasefire in August 2003. It documents an increasing
sophistication among security forces in hiding these abuses, including
by
burying bodies and forcing local people to sign false witness
statements, as
well as a continued reluctance to punish those responsible. (Full
report
online at
- http://amnesty-news.c.topica.com/maac5Q9abdtT3cieCxfb/ )
Even those responsible for the most serious and high-profile abuses,
such as
the illegal execution of 19 unarmed Maoists in Doramba village,
Ramechhap
district in August 2003, have not been brought to justice.
In another incident, on 3 September 2004 three unarmed teenage girls
were
allegedly killed by security forces. Hira Ram Rai, 15, Jina Rai, 16,
and
Indra Kala Rai, 16, were followed by a group of soldiers as they left
their
school in Basikhora village, Bhojpur district. When the girls went into
a
nearby forest, the soldiers shot them dead and buried them. Their
killers
have not been identified or punished.
Maoists have also been responsible for killing civilians and security
force
personnel that they have taken captive. Among the civilians killed was
Dekendra Raj Thapa, a journalist and human rights defender abducted by
the
Maoists in June 2004 and killed by them on 11 August 2004. Maoist
fighters
responsible for such abuses are not disciplined and remain in their
posts.
"These unlawful killings are part of a terrible spectrum of human
rights
abuses. The Nepali people are living amid daily torture, rape,
'disappearances' and arbitrary arrests," said Ms Massage.
Amnesty International is calling for a number of actions including:
- The Nepali government and Maoists to keep their promises on human
rights
and discipline their personnel who commit abuses;
- The Nepali government and Maoists to cooperate fully with the
National
Human Rights Commission, sign its Human Rights Accord and accept
comprehensive monitoring;
- The UN Commission on Human Rights, which meets in March, to appoint
a
Special Rapporteur dedicated to Nepal.
"International pressure can make a difference. Last year, it helped
produce
a drop in reports of "disappearances' in Nepal. Now it is time the same
level of attention is given to unlawful killings and other human rights
abuses," said Ms Massage.
Background
Nepal has been gripped by a nine year conflict between Maoist
insurgents and
government forces. Since the breakdown of the most recent ceasefire
between
the government and Maoists on 27 August 2003, fighting has intensified
and
the human rights situation has deteriorated dramatically. Human rights
defenders have come under increasing threat and the work of the
National
Human Rights Commission has been obstructed by both sides.
Amnesty International has consistently condemned the illegal killings
carried out by both parties to the conflict. It has appealed to the
government to abide by its international human rights obligations,
including
to uphold the right to life. It has also urged the Maoists to respect
their
stated commitments to fundamental human rights standards and the Geneva
Conventions, which prohibit the execution of civilians and those not
actively engaged in combat.
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- http://amnesty-news.c.topica.com/maac5Q9abdtT4cieCxfb/
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paramendra Posted on 01-22-05 2:30 PM Reply | Notify Admin
shu's/Deuba's Supermodel 5: Elections For A New Parliament is under serious doubt. I believe that brings us back to Supermodel 3: Constituent Assembly as the best option.
"To go for the elections at this time is to become fully submissive to 'regression'. Congress will not submit itself to the regression at any cost......"
Girija Prasad Koirala, president of Nepali Congress and former prime minister, addressing party cadres.
Elections impossible: MK Nepal
These two just so happen to be the two largest political parties in the country.
Nepal
Killing with impunity
-- http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engasa310012005
ViVashMe Posted on 01-25-05 4:44 PM Reply | Notify Admin
elated article. The author may have even read some of the sajha threads before writing this article :-)
http://www.nepalnews.com/ntimes/issue231/nepali_pan.htm
presidentofnepal2035 Posted on 01-25-05 10:26 PM Reply | Notify Admin
lthough my nick resembles pro democratic vis-?-vis revolutionary, by nature I am the other extreme. I have my own way of peeping things no wonder why most of the closest Nepalese hate me labeling ?Raja badi?. I don?t refute; I am ?Raja badi? and I am proud of it.
Jumbling with models and supermodels I finally came into my own conclusions that are best to go withr Nepal and Nepalese people.
I have no reason to blame Girija or Dewba. We gave them mandate to run our country. We let them free to act upon their own. Thanks to the lure of democracy they are the most corrupted leaders we have. I don?t want any examples of USA, or any other developed nations where presidential rule is working fine. We are from Nepal; the most poor and highly illiterate nation in the world. We have to bear in mind that presidential rule works fine where people are not ignorant.
Discussing what is good and what is bad for Nepal is surely appreciable. I do like to discuss on different agendas. Residing in developed country and giving statements on ?anti king? is kind of unacceptable, at list for the shake of poor Nepali.
We are living in a democratic country and we should respect freedom of speech. But? isn?t it very early for us to out throwing king? This is Nepal and we are ignorant about politics. What do you except from those 56% of illiterate Nepalese who are treated as a vote bank from our politicians? Do you expect them to choose the right candidate as a president of Nepal? Don?t you expect our future president becoming like Girija or Dewba?
Yes, India is the best example to counter my opinion. But remember, it would be much easy for Delhi to manipulate our natural resources with a small bribe to our future president.
Model number 1:- We are to blame not Girja or Deuba
Super model: - Constitutional Monarchy with multiparty democracy.
karmapa Posted on 01-25-05 11:13 PM Reply | Notify Admin
f course, constituent assembly is the way to go. more power to the
peoples who are for this option. it is a fallacy to believe this is the niji
agenda of the Maoists ONLY, and that advocating this position is
supporting the Maoist rebels. the truth is politically-conscious Madhises
to Janjatis to Dalits to Adivashis to women to other minorities - even
those have been victims of the Maoist violence - are increasingly clamoring
for contituent assembly. hope the political parties that make up the
government and the government sit up and listen to the peoples' voices
rather than parrot the 'elections' or 'reviving the parliament' mantra,
which seems to be coming from powerful quarters, from the very
people who made a big mess of this country.
karmapa
paramendra Posted on 01-26-05 9:32 PM Reply | Notify Admin
magine this: Deuba announces elections. Koirala Congress, the UML, half of Deuba Congress, and the rest declare they are not going to take part. Then what?
Reviving parliament. Even according to the Grandpa Of The Idea, Koirala, it will have to be done by the king through the universally loathed Article 127. And the king has made it very clear he will not go for it.
Koirala is angling for a revived parliament because that will bring him center stage. Madhav Nepal wants a revived local bodies, because that brings him center stage. It is almost like it is business as usual for these people. That there is no crisis. And political angling for power should continue on as usual.
For Deuba (or any Prime Minster) to say they will talk with the Maoists, but only within the current constitution is like saying they do not want to talk. The Maoists on their part have crossed many human rights boundaries. Child soldiers, for one.
What about this:
(1) Deuba announces open talks where all options are on the table.
(2) Agree to the Constituent Assembly talk, but only if the Maoists disarm. To that the Maoists will say, no, instead we want to merge into the Nepali Army. Deuba says, fine, but all of your cadres will have to apply individually. Like new recruits. And all those who pass the "entrance" requirements will be taken in at the level of their qualification, but not en masse, not in "Maoist battalions."
(3) Then hold elections. The new elected body drafts a new constitution that is put to a referendum. If the referendum accepts the constitution, the elected body stays on as parliament. Or new elections are held. Two elections will be cheaper than the ongoing civil war and paralysis.
(4) There is a strong possibility the monarchy might come back. The people might decide to keep it. Most important the Maoists will be disarmed. The Maoists are the weaker party. But it would be a bad idea to try to rub their nose in the dust. Better to help them save face. True, they are theoretically Maoists. 70 years back they would have been Stalinists. But then 20 years back the UML were communists. 30 years back Koirala hijacked a plane. 70 years back the Shahas did what the Ranas asked them to do. The Maoists are a protest movement. They are not communists in the old fashioned way. Most of their grievances have been Janajati grievances. That is more ethnic than industrial labor stuff.
If you are going to hold elections anyway, there is not much difference between an election Deuba and the king want, and one for a Constituent Assembly.
karmapa: "... it is a fallacy to believe this is the niji agenda of the Maoists ONLY.... the truth is politically-conscious Madhises to Janjatis to Dalits to Adivashis to women to other minorities - even those have been victims of the Maoist violence - are increasingly clamoring for contituent assembly....."
Exactly. Maoists or not, I am for a Constituent Assembly. A constituent assembly to draft a constitution. Referendums for all major decisions. Parliamentary elections and processes for regular power stuff. One person one vote. Democracy.
It is a democracy thing. It is to say the 23 million Nepalis are the ones who ought to decide.
Laughing Buddha Posted on 01-26-05 9:39 PM Reply | Notify Admin
ing G is shrewd; one cannot underestimate his political cunning. Maoist or no Maoist, he is playing his hand the way he wants to.
Laughing Buddha Posted on 01-26-05 9:53 PM Reply | Notify Admin
ut what can a constituent assembly resolve?
I hadn't read this thread in a while. Great discussion going on here.
But, GP crawls in here too with his borrowed "intelligence."
nispaksha Posted on 01-27-05 1:27 AM Reply | Notify Admin
do not think there will be an election. Election card is just being used to isolate Deupa and claim moral high ground.
I think both palace and Maoists want the present political situation to linger for few more months if not years. Both sides might have good reasons to claim that they are maintaining upper hand militarily as well as politically. Most visible achievement of theirs (ironically the same) is to have reduced the status of Makune and Girija as mere clowns of currently featured political circus in Kathmandu. Major political parties, which still represent, at least in theoretical terms, political aspiration of large majority of Nepalese people are now increasingly becoming irrelevant for major political decisions and their leaders? public utility is not more than being subjects of political satires and newspapers? cartoons. Very unfortunate development for a democratic Nepal !
I think for Makune and Girija (and their party by extension), it is right time to take POLITICAL LEAVE for couple of years. Just declare that, ?OK you two Gun-Lovers settle your big questions first, we will deal with the winner afterward?. Just imagine, if they had taken such leave two years back, their political legitimacy would not have been so much undermined. If needed, they can give it political plating declaring it as a SATYAGRAHA (but without any julus or dharna, stay home and watch Mahabharat). As GITA says: AKARMA (no activity) is better than KUKARMA (bad activity). And acting as clowns in such a clumsy political circus is Maha-Kukarma.
Nispaksha
paramendra Posted on 01-29-05 3:30 PM Reply | Notify Admin
(1) Deuba in saying he will only talk within the parameters of constitutional monarchy and multi-party democracy is basically not inviting the Maoists for talks but is asking them to surrender, which they have refused to do.
(2) The invitation should be an open one, saying all options are on the table.
(3) Agree to the idea on an all-party government, that also includes the Maoists, and the idea of elections for a Constituent Assembly, but only if the Maoists disarm.
(4) To that the Maoists might say, integrate our cadres into the Army. Reply: okay, but not as separate Maoists battalions. Instead they will have to apply as individuals, and at least 75% will be inducted on merit, and integrated but not en masse.
(5) And make the Maoists promise they will accept the outcome of the Constituent Assembly. At that point Deuba may say he and his party are going to campaign for a constitutional monarcy, and the Maoists are free to campaign for a republic if they might so choose. Each party will have a similar choise.
This might be the way out, not an attempt to rub the Maoist nose in the ground.
paramendra Posted on 02-02-05 4:53 PM Reply | Notify Admin
"The king has the chief executive authority now, so it will be easier for the rebels to come for peace talks. It is what they have been wanting."
Nepal's Home Minister Dan Bahadur Shahi
- http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=63914
There is an all round international condemnation. UN, US, UK, India, you name it. Indian Prime Minister cancels his trip to the SAARC summit. That is a major act of protest.
The leaders under arrest. Are their second level leaders around the country capable of organizing a counter move? That is to be seen.
Is it just the Congress and the UML leaders, or is it also those from the smaller parties? Anyone jailed? Or is it a blanket house arrest?
Will the Maoists come for talks? Even if they might know the king will not give an inch. The 1991 constitution is the best he will offer.
It is now like a direct confrontation between the Maoists and the Monarchists for now. One hopes there is not too much bloodshed. More likely the people are in for another round of authoritarianism. Militarization with all its repurcussions for the conscious and the thinking. A further deterioration in the human rights situation will be the sad part.
"....Nepal's mountainous terrain makes it highly unlikely that there will ever be a military solution to the war with the Maoist rebels, who have an estimated 10,000 to 15,000 fighters and control large parts of the countryside...........He has a 78,000-member army under his command, and said that he would "restore democracy and law and order in the country in the next three years."..."
"..King Gyanendra said, ?They (politicians) were only after power and neglected peoples? interest.?.."
Look who is talking!
"..The King had also called upon the Maoists to surrender by laying down arms and promised to grant amnesty to those who do so..."
- http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=63885
- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4226039.stm (Rabindra Mishra)
".. If the king fails, there is a possibility that the political parties might establish some sort of working relationship with the Maoists and try to get rid of the king himself .."
"..But Mr Deuba had been telling many journalists off the record that the king himself did not, in fact, want the elections to be held..."
- http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4228309.stm
"..Spokesman Krishna Bahadur Mahra told the BBC Nepali service that the king had closed the door to any possibility of dialogue..."
This is a call from both sides for a military solution to the stalemate. Not good.
paramendra Posted on 02-02-05 5:57 PM Reply | Notify Admin
"As the monarch's ambitions and the Maoist grand strategy became ever more transparent, the fractious political parties in Nepal remained feckless.....the Nepali establishment to take on board much of the Maoist political and social agenda and initiate significant reforms...."
- http://www.todayonline.com/articles/33850.asp
"..cutting the country off from the rest of the world in spectacular tin-pot dictator style..."As for the three-year timeline he has given for restoring democracy, believe me, people are already planning massive protests that will continue over the next few weeks.".....The king and his son, Paras, are extremely unpopular among the Nepalese. .....declaration came a few days after Nepal shut down the Dalai Lama's offices......the King has also brought himself into direct confrontation with his enemies ? the Maoists....."The King needs to be forced to restore the dissolved Parliament ? irrespective of any constitutional niceties that might obstruct that move ? Nepal is well beyond constitutional niceties at this stage anyway."......."
"...Gyanendra, best known before he became king for the nighclub antics of his errant son Paras who is now crown prince, missed the 2001 massacre because he was away. Paras was present but escaped unscathed... At his coronation, crowds chanted slogans against him and tried to block the motorcade to the palace. ... Some observers have compared Gyanendra's style to that of his autocratic father, King Mahendra. ..."
- http://news.ft.com/cms/s/7d6e7afc-7475-11d9-a769-00000e2511c8.html
"...The king is likely to seek direct talks with the Maoists, without having to consult what he sees as Kathmandu's incorrigibly venal political class....Many among Nepal's mainstream population will see Gyanendra?s move as a transparent attempt to aggrandise power for its own sake....."It doesn't matter whether the conspiracy theory is true or not - and there is not much evidence to support it," says S.D. Muni, an academic of modern Nepal, based in New Delhi. "What matters is how many people believe it - Gyanendra and his son are deeply disliked among large sections of Nepalis."....The monarch?s dwindling popularity has not been assisted by the antics of Paras, his only son and official heir, whose reputation for drunken thuggery is undisputed. "The Most Feared Man in Nepal", is the cover story headline on this month's issue of one magazine in New Delhi..............But Nepal's media, which, during the reign of King Birendra, had been reluctant to indulge in any criticism of the monarchy, has published regular accounts of incidents in which Paras has allegedly beaten up people in Kathmandu nightclubs and, in one case, killed a motorcyclist in a drink-driving accident.
.............As a royal, Paras can only be prosecuted by consent of the king. "Paras is a bad apple, plain and simple," said a Nepalese businessman close to the family. "He has done incalculable damage to the royal family."................According to tradition, Nepal's king is seen as an incarnation of the Hindu god Vishnu - the preserver. After yesterday, some will jest Gyanendra would be a more fitting avatar of Shiva - the destroyer............ "
- http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1007552.cms
".. "Whether the king can find a solution to the country's problems is very, very doubtful. The tide is against him because of various problems - economic, political and the Maoists."...."
- http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/20050203/main3.htm
"...FOR all those following the developments in Nepal, the King?s coup, has not come as a surprise. Notable, however, is the sweep and sting of the King?s action...........has put all other political party leaders under house arrest..........Gyanendra has always been nursing political ambitions..........He never politically approved of his brother, the late King Birendra?s attempts to adjust with the constraints of Constitutional Monarchy and parliamentary governance..........During the past six months, there have been carefully prompted statements asking for direct intervention of the King, aimed at creating the right atmosphere for this take over..........An important aspect of the King?s takeover has been his lauding of the role of the security forces. He has even accused the political party leaders of not appreciating the sacrifices made by the security forces in the fight against ?terrorism?; and has promised to give more powers to the Royal Nepal Army............Even on earlier occasions, under King Gyanendra, the Army Generals have been openly criticising the political parties and their leaders. ..........However, everyone knows that the Royal Nepal Army has so far given no assuring indications that it is capable of dealing with the Maoist challenge. Any excessive use of force and oppression may in fact bring the Maoists and the political parties closer to each other. .........No one can say how the Monarchy as an institution would emerge out of this chaos. ........There is also an option for the King to tactically open negotiations with the Maoists to diffuse the international and internal pressures on him. However, it is unlikely that any viable solution will emerge out of such talks unless the King is willing to curb his own powers. If that was possible, he would not have staged a coup...........India?s reaction to the King?s coup has been strong and immediate........Gynandra has already indicated his desire and willingness to use the China card in support of his action. .........Three days before his coup, he closed down the Dalai Lama?s offices in Nepal to please the Chinese. He did not care about the US displeasure......It is only through the mobilisation of popular and democratic forces that the Maoists movement can be soft-landed and the King can be shown his place..."
- www.cpnm.org
- http://www.centralchronicle.com/20050203/0302008.htm
".. "Nepalese masses that have shown their identity through the mass struggle of 1990 and 9 years' of people's war are capable to fulfill their historic task of establishing a republic," he said...."
paramendra Posted on 02-02-05 5:58 PM Reply | Notify Admin
- http://newsfromrussia.com/world/2005/02/02/58035.html
"..The new king thought his brother was mistaken in handing over power to the government...."
".....Prachanda, or "the fierce one", denounced Gyanendra as a "national betrayer" and urged citizens to "shut down Nepal" from Wednesday to Friday. Witnesses in Kathmandu said life was going on as normal with shops, schools and businesses open and streets jammed with traffic....."
- http://www.telegraphindia.com/1050202/asp/nation/story_4326997.asp
"..Many Nepalis say the portly, severe man, usually dressed in narrow daura-suruwal trousers and a knee-length shirt, is the reason their country is in crisis...Gyanendra?s popularity has steadily fallen in the last three years and his performance had some Nepalis talking about what would once have been blasphemy: turning the world?s only Hindu kingdom into a republic...........He is said to be scornful of most politicians, who have been locked in interminable squabbles since democracy was introduced in 1991. ?Gyanendra is not very enthusiastic about democracy. His brother, the former king, promoted democracy,? said Kalim Bahadur, a South Asian political analyst in Delhi........"
- http://www.satribune.com/archives/feb05/P1_arun.htm
"..Nepalese Maoists and insurgent leaders have crossed over into India.........In a strongly worded statement, India said the move would bring the monarchy and mainstream parties into direct confrontation and would strengthen the Maoists......Indian officials said they had received reports that senior Maoist leaders had crossed over into India shortly after the crackdown. These officials say that one of the most wanted Maoist leader, Baburam Bhattarai, is reportedly hiding in Bihar......Likewise Ram Bahadur Thapa, (who has Badal, Lakhan, Bhimsen and Prem as aliases) and who is also a ?Politburo and Standing Committee? member and incharge of special central command has also entered India. Krishna Bahadur Mahara alias Amar Singh, who acts as the Maoists? spokesperson and is incharge of the ?Foreign Section (India)? may also cross over to India......Other top-level commanders of the insurgents include among others, Yan Prasad Gautarri alias Alok, Chitranarayan Shrestha, Shashi Shrestha, Hisila Yani, Man Bahadur Mahara, Santhosh Bura, Lekhraj Bhatt, CP Gajurel......In the political wing, the important Maoist leaders include Comrade Parvati (a nom de guerre of Baburam Bhattarai?s wife Hsila Yemi), Matrika Yadav, Deb Bahadur Gurung, Krishna Dhoj Khadka, Rekha Sharma, Rabindra Shrestha, Bamdev Chhetri and Mumaram Khanal are among the Wanted List. All of them are soon expected to enter Bihar or the Terai region of Uttar Pradesh and Uttaranchal......Nepalese Maoists have made their bases in Bihar, Uttar Pradesh and Uttaranchal......Nepalese Maoists come here, they stay here, get arms and ammunitions from their counterparts and return to their original bases in Nepal....Baburam Bhattarai heads the political wing of the Maoists called the United People?s Front. Bhattari also has many aliases including Lal Singh, Jitbir, Mukti Manab.....In the Central Committee meeting of the Maoists in September 2004, he was given the charge of the mid central command......The Maoists are infiltrating India mainly through border areas in Bihar, Uttar Pradesh, Uttaranchal, West Bengal and Sikkim. Recently, arrested militants have disclosed that arms training are being conducted in the forests of Bagha in the West Champaran district of India......the Maoists of Nepal have well-established linkages with Indian left-wing extremist organizations, primarily with the People?s War Group (PWG) and Maoist Communist Centre (MCC). ....they began the process of laying a corridor, which is now widely referred to as the Revolutionary Corridor (RC) extending from Nepal to across six Indian States, including Bihar, Chhattisgarh, Jharkhand, Andhra Pradesh, Orissa and Madhya Pradesh. This entire area has been identified in Maoist literature as the Compact Revolutionary Zone (CRZ). Now Uttaranchal has been added to it.....It is a co-signatory, along with 41 other left-wing extremist groups ranging from South America to South East Asia, to a resolution that ?condemned and opposed the malpractice of the fascist state of Nepal?............................But Yubraj Ghimare, Editor of the Nepalese Kantipur Times has a different story to narrate. Talking to the South Asia Tribune from Kathmandu on telephone, he said: ?It is simply a step to undermine the democratic set up of the country. People, including Maoists, are in favor of democracy. They want royalty to go, and they want to establish full and complete democracy in Nepal?.....?Now the King will initiate action against the Maoist forces and their sympathizers who are fighting for the lawful and democratic rights of the people?, he added.................according to rough estimates there were approximately 5,500 combatants, 8,000 militia, 4,500 cadres, 33,000 hard core followers, and 200,000 sympathizers of the Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist) in early 2004..........?The main fighting and support forces consist of Magars, Tharus, Janjatis (Gurungs, Rais, Limbus, Tamangs, Dalits, Brahmins and Chhetris, the last two also providing the political and military leadership)?...........about 60 per cent are deployed in the mid-west and west in their strongholds. Another 10 per cent are in the far west with around 10 per cent in Gorkha, the rest is located in Kathmandu valley and east of it. All of them want democracy in Nepal,?..........The guerrillas operate to varying degrees in 68 of the 75 districts.........."
paramendra Posted on 02-02-05 5:59 PM Reply | Notify Admin
- http://news.ft.com/cms/s/09092ff0-74bf-11d9-a769-00000e2511c8.html
Maoists likely to profit
"...Gyanendra announced he was suspending democracy in order to save it...."
- http://www.keralanext.com/news/indexread.asp?id=104210
"..For all practical purposes, the Government of Nepal's adversarial interaction with the rebel Maoists will continue, and now more than ever, it seems apparent that the country's political fate is most likely to be settled on the battlefield....
- http://www.gorkhapatra.org.np/pageloader.php?file=2005/01/24/topstories/main4
Speaker Ranabhat .........was speaking at the third memorial function of the founder president of Nepal Sadbhawana Party Gajendra Narayan Singh organised by Nepal Sadbhawana Party (Anandidevi)......Former Prime Minister Surya Bahadur Thapa argued that all problems could be addressed only after resolving the issues raised by minority and ethnic groups and the Terai people......Tripathy of Nepal Sadbhawana Party (Anandidevi), reiterated their parties common stance of restoring the House of Representatives and restructuring the political system as the only option to resolve the present problem.........
paramendra Posted on 02-02-05 6:11 PM Reply | Notify Admin
Scenario 1: The stalemate continues. Sporadic violence. Mostly not much. Severe violation of human rights. The military-royal complex strengthens its grips on Kathmandu life. King G's government lasts for a year. Achievements not that different from Deuba's. No talks. No peace. No development. No hope.
Scenario 2: Violent confrontation between the Maoists and the Monarchists. Both attempt to go on the offensive agains the other.
Scenario 3: The second rung leaders of the parties spread across the country manage to organize a counter current of protest. Slowly a call for a republic takes hold. Gains strength as the G government chugs along Deuba style.
Scenario 4: Failed state. Widespread lawlessness.
None of the scenarios look that good. A sad phase for the country.
Constituent Assembly elections after a disarming of the Maoists come as the only meeting ground for the three forces. But King G is nowhere close to that option in his mind. Neither are the parties. So expect deadlock to continue.
Scenario 5: An all-party government minus the Maoists due to intense international pressure and a revived parliament with a one-point mandate to seek peace with the Maoists by keeping all options on the table. This might be King G's second best option, but I doubt he will take it.
usofa Posted on 02-02-05 6:24 PM Reply | Notify Admin
cenario 6) Prachandra and other key leaders are captured and party falls into pieces like shining path of Peru.
Scenario 7) Maoist talks to King after major blows from Army.
Scenario 8) Prachandra or Baburam accepts the offer from King to act as Prime minister under his direct rule.
NK Posted on 02-02-05 7:13 PM Reply | Notify Admin
cenario nth: King G gives a date for next election. Encourages Prachanda and his henchmen to come out and take part. Army moves in quickly and captures the two Maoists and throws them in Nakkhu. They will be tried, and convicted. They will be executed swifly and mercifully (perhaps a bullet on the forehead) and the king grandly annouces he is resigning from his King post and takes the 'sanyas.' The elected parliament will immediately ask India to rule them forever and peacefully as they have been governing themselves after the British rule. And every Nepali will train to be "IT Person." It will be heaven.
Sorry Paramendra could not help it.
paramendra Posted on 02-02-05 7:38 PM Reply | Notify Admin
K! The NK!
Where have you been?
:-)
paramendra Posted on 02-03-05 7:21 PM Reply | Notify Admin
- http://www.sajha.com/sajha/html/openThread.cfm?forum=2&ThreadID=19243
presidentofnepal2035 Posted on 02-03-05 7:45 PM Reply | Notify Admin
"It is a considerable headache for the West. Two months ago, Britain, the US and India warned King Gyanendra not to sack the government and take absolute power. Now he has called their bluff, trying to present himself as the only bulwark against the Maoists. That leaves the West with a dilemma: back Gyanendra, and his assault on human rights, or let Nepal fall into the hands of the Maoists, whom the West has condemned as "terrorists". For the West, either choice is unacceptable. "
- http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/story.jsp?story=607554
paramendra Posted on 02-04-05 8:16 PM Reply | Notify Admin
t is amazing how much badmouthing "democracy" is getting at Sajha. I would guess most of those doing the badmouthing are in America, and America is what it is because it is the world's oldest democracy. Many Nepalis have gone thorugh hell and high water to come to America. What for? If you so love autocracy, now might be your chance: go to Nepal!
I would be the first to criticize the ineptitude of the leaders during the 1990s. And to decry the corrutpion. But just look at two things:
(1) The royal budget got doubled after Deuba was sacked. Is that not brahmaloot? Is that not corrution? Misuse of taxpayers' money? Which Congress leader was corrupt at such a large scale?
(2) Nepal saw more development work during the 10 years of multi party democracy than during the 30 years of Panchayat. It worked, damnit!
People raise two issues when they try to discredit the democratic experiment in Nepal.
(1) The cacophony of democracy. Leaders supposedly fighting amongst themselves.
Response: Democracy, by definition, is a cacophony. It is no symphony. It is through such dialectics that progress is made. Raging debates are a good thing.
(2) Leaders getting accused of being power-hungry. Of wanting to become Prime Minister.
Response: Heck, that is a good thing! It is a good thing Bill Gates wants to be rich. We all end up with Windows. It is a good thing Bill Clinton works over a lifetime to become president. Similary it is a good thing if Girija and Deuba and MaKuNe compete to become Prime Minister. The country benefits from the competition.
King G's speech. It reads as follows:
(1) My ancestor Prithvi created Nepal so this country is my family property.
(2) But this is the 21st century so I guess I will allow some democracy. Times have changed.
(3) Democracy is fine, but we could not get a single good leader duing the 1990s. Good system, bad players.
(4) I sacked Deuba twice, giving him less than a year each time to hold elecitons. He is inept. I will give myself three years to do the same.
(5) Yo Prachande le nihu nai khojya ho ta? La ta au aba direct guff garam.
When was the last time a country, any country on the planet got similary blacked out? No phone, no internet, no nothing. This is primitive.
The Constituent Assembly idea is the only meeting point for the three forces in the country. On that more here:
- http://www.sajha.com/sajha/html/OpenThread.cfm?forum=2&ThreadID=18493
(2) Agree to the Constituent Assembly talk, but only if the Maoists disarm. To that the Maoists will say, no, instead we want to merge into the Nepali Army. Deuba says, fine, but all of your cadres will have to apply individually. Like new recruits. And all those who pass the "entrance" requirements will be taken in at the level of their qualification, but not en masse, not in "Maoist battalions."
(3) Then hold elections. The new elected body drafts a new constitution that is put to a referendum. If the referendum accepts the constitution, the elected body stays on as parliament. Or new elections are held. Two elections will be cheaper than the ongoing civil war and paralysis.
(4) There is a strong possibility the monarchy might come back. The people might decide to keep it. Most important the Maoists will be disarmed. The Maoists are the weaker party. But it would be a bad idea to try to rub their nose in the dust. Better to help them save face. True, they are theoretically Maoists. 70 years back they would have been Stalinists. But then 20 years back the UML were communists. 30 years back Koirala hijacked a plane. 70 years back the Shahas did what the Ranas asked them to do. The Maoists are a protest movement. They are not communists in the old fashioned way. Most of their grievances have been Janajati grievances. That is more ethnic than industrial labor stuff.
- http://www.sajha.com/sajha/html/OpenThread.cfm?forum=2&ThreadID=19243#113436
tired Posted on 02-04-05 8:31 PM Reply | Notify Admin
ou are absolutely right, Paramendra. So, why are people constantly saying "democracy bad - corrupt politicians - kill politicians - put them in jail." And in the same breath "King good - king capable, etc."
Doesn't this smack of rightist propaganda to you? Just a thought.
presidentofnepal2035 Posted on 02-04-05 8:39 PM Reply | Notify Admin
"Nepal saw more development work during the 10 years of multi party democracy than during the 30 years of Panchayat. It worked, damnit!"
My response: Nepal saw more violence and killings during 10 years of multi party democracy than during the 30 years of panchayat. It didn?t work. Damnit!
Leaders getting accused of being power-hungry. Of wanting to become Prime Minister.
Response: Heck, that is a good thing! It is a good thing Bill Gates wants to be rich. We all end up with Windows. It is a good thing Bill Clinton works over a lifetime to become president. Similary it is a good thing if Girija and Deuba and MaKuNe compete to become Prime Minister. The country benefits from the competition.
My Response: Heck, this is really bad thing. It is bad because Girija earned more money than he could?ve imagined. Dhamija, Lauda scandals are to name a few.
Can we come up with any leader who is not corrupt?
The cacophony of democracy. Leaders supposedly fighting amongst themselves.
Response: Democracy, by definition, is a cacophony. It is no symphony. It is through such dialectics that progress is made. Raging debates are a good thing.
My response: I do agree that democracy is a synonymous of cacophony but fighting amongst each other just for "kurchy" not for Nepal is never acceptable.
paramendra Posted on 02-04-05 8:55 PM Reply | Notify Admin
ome articles of interest----------
- http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1405637,00.html
"...Neither coups nor crackdowns will save Nepal's king or its rapacious upper class from the Maoist rebellion ...The Maoists' people's war, waged with an estimated 8,000 troops and up to 40,000 militia, has made steady progress against the larger and better-armed Nepali army and police...."
- http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-oe-norris4feb04,1,6614906.story
"...Just 10 days after President Bush boldly proclaimed Washington's "ultimate goal of ending tyranny in our world," he was presented with a fascinating test case ? not in Iraq but in the Himalayan kingdom of Nepal...Across much of Nepal, neither the government nor the Maoists are fully in control, and basic services such as health and education have largely collapsed....the nation's deep social and class divisions. .... First, there is no easy military solution....The Maoists are well organized, and Nepal's terrain makes it hard to stamp out a guerrilla movement....King Gyanendra and his advisors frequently cite Pakistan as a model ? a nation where the military government of Gen. Pervez Musharraf continues to shun democracy with full backing from Washington.
....."
- http://www.economist.com/agenda/displayStory.cfm?story_id=3621675
"..... its slide towards becoming a failed state threatens to spread unrest, and even terror, across South Asia ...Some observers suspect that, after reluctantly giving Mr Deuba his job back, the king deliberately set him up to fail......the king announced a new cabinet of cronies, chancers and nobodies.....He seems to think he can defeat the rebels militarily, though this is unlikely. Indeed, there is a small but growing possibility that the rebels could defeat the government.....some subjects now regard him as one of the main obstacles to ending the conflict?and talk of replacing the monarchy with a republic....International condemnation of the Nepalese king's coup has been stronger than he might have expected. ...India has a spreading Maoist insurgency of its own, now affecting around a quarter of India?s nearly 600 administrative districts. India says Nepal?s Maoists have formed links with the 20-odd Indian Maoist insurgent groups, known as ?Naxalites?, and with some of the vicious groups fighting secessionist wars in India?s north-east.....the Nepalese Maoists .. have even started trench- and tunnel-digging in some areas to prepare for Indian bombing.....The Maoists? main demand is for an elected assembly to draft a new constitution, something that many of the country?s political parties may now accept. But the king will not, for he realises that the likely outcome would be a republic. To prevent a complete collapse of Nepal, followed perhaps by a regional conflagration, some sort of international mediation?possibly involving a United Nations peacekeeping mission?is needed. Unfortunately, India is not keen on this as it would set a precedent for Kashmir, a disputed territory over which Indian and Pakistani forces have been trading blows for decades.."
Nepal in chaos
Dec 2nd 2004
From The Economist print edition
PROSPECTS for peace to calm Nepal's nine-year-old Maoist rebellion look as bleak as ever. The government has set a deadline of January 13th for the Maoists to enter talks. If they refuse, it says it will step up its military campaign and?bizarre threat?hold an election.?
Nepal: a failing state
Dec 2nd 2004
From The Economist print edition
LIKE a severely disturbed individual, a failed state is a danger not just to itself but to those around it and beyond. That was a lesson indelibly learned on September 11th 2001. After 20 years of war, Afghanistan had become such a state, no longer functioning in any conventional sense.?
Those who oppose the Maoists paint scenarios of autocracy, of one party communist rule. Well, the king now has done what the Maoists would never have been able to do. Those anti-Maoists should now be rallying agains the king, right?
It is pathetic how much suppor the king's move has been getting here at Sajha. I guess that proves Sajha's audience is primarily people who are part of the elite 5% in Kathmandu, socially, culturally and economically, that class that believes it wields power no matter who comes to power or not.
Read King G's speech. The guy is Mahendra Part II.
The way to steal the Maoists' thunder is to eat their social and political lunch. So as to defang their military wing. The Maoists are no Al Qaeda.
presidentofnepal2035 Posted on 02-04-05 9:20 PM Reply | Notify Admin
"It is pathetic how much suppor the king's move has been getting here at Sajha. I guess that proves Sajha's audience is primarily people who are part of the elite 5% in Kathmandu, socially, culturally and economically, that class that believes it wields power no matter who comes to power or not. "
Basic Fundamentals of democracy
You have a right to participate. Respect among citizens with differing views is cornerstone. Sharing your knowledge and opinions with your fellow citizens is a democratic right.
No comments.
tired Posted on 02-04-05 9:37 PM Reply | Notify Admin
ehe. riight.
paramendra Posted on 02-04-05 9:41 PM Reply | Notify Admin
ore press coverage:
Coverage woes for censored press in Nepal
Seattle Post Intelligencer, WA ............"....."They say they need to do this to crack down on the Maoists," said a senior editor at another newspaper, who also spoke on condition of anonymity. "But so far they've only cracked down on the press."..........So some media outlets have chosen to run the blandest news possible, while others hide their opinions in puns and metaphors..........And at least one has found another way..........Bimarsha Weekly put out its latest edition Friday. Its main news page was completely blank........"
- http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1010798.cms
- http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1406468,00.html
"....There he found 60 other protesters who had dared challenge the king of Nepal's state of emergency.....Poked repeatedly with the barrel of a gun, Dhruv's right eye remains bruised and half-opened.....Seen as "clever and intellectual," King Gyanendra has never hidden his disdain for political parties....Nepal will simply end up with a monarchy propped up by an army....The civil war has already seen defence spending in the country spiral...."The king does not understand that political parties are necessarily messy institutions," said Kanak Mani Dixit, publisher of Himal magazine. "Instead we may now get an expensive and coercive army which will stymie the development of the people..........."It will be a mistake to think we can win the war this way. Nepal is a combination of Afghanistan's ravines and Vietnam's foliage and you cannot defeat a guerrilla army in such conditions." ......"
- http://www.telegraphindia.com/1050205/asp/nation/story_4340473.asp
"....?I knew the king would make a telecast on February 1 morning. I thought he would make an announcement about the Samvidhan Sabha elections. I never imagined he would go this far. I anticipated my arrest and immediately started moving towards India,? said Kushwaha, a minister in the earlier Sher Bahadur Deuba government......Gyanendra is a dictator by nature......"
- http://www.theage.com.au/news/World/No-warning-from-king-but-signs-were-there/2005/02/04/1107476799560.html
"... He spoke for 35 minutes, endorsing multi-party democracy, then dissolved the government, committed to uphold human rights. He said: "it would be unfair to put the state and the terrorists on the same footing", applauded the independent press and then imposed a six-month blackout on discussion of this week's events. During his speech, the phone grid was shut down.......A Western observer said: "They (monarchists) underestimate the vibrancy of Nepal's 14 years of democratic experience. "Ultimately they will fail, but will it be in three months or three years?"....."
- http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=7&id=326858
- http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/WO0502/S00139.htm
- http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4237445.stm
".. No plans for elections in Nepal....The government of Nepal has said it will not restore multi-party democracy and allow elections until it has defeated Maoist rebels......"
- http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1012058.cms
Face-Off: Monarch Vs Maoists
"...It's a direct fight between Gyanendra and Prachanda..... Till Tuesday, the rough and tumble of multi-party politics acted as a buffer between the palace and the rebels..... people are not fully convinced that the 78,000-strong Royal Nepal Army can effectively take on the Maoists who are increasingly turning brutal. The Maoists themselves have planned ?centralised action' in March-April by their three ?operational commands' in western, central and eastern Nepal.......Though their hardcore cadre is limited to 8,000, they can bank on another 18,000 militia, as per an estimate. ...."
Nepali army to step up anti-guerrilla offensive
Fri Feb 4, 2005 12:32 PM ET ....".... both sides have ground to a strategic stalemate where neither can win on the battlefield......Nepal's giant neighbour and major military backer, India, which has criticised the king's move, said it doubted the military could make significant progress against the rebels......"The present Nepal government has no reach beyond Kathmandu. The Maoists control a majority of the Himalayan kingdom," Indian Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee said. ..."
- http://news.newkerala.com/india-news/?action=fullnews&id=68536
- http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/GB05Df09.html
Dui dhunga beech ko tarul = Nepali janata.
Euta dhunga: Raja, arko: Maobadi.
paramendra Posted on 02-04-05 10:06 PM Reply | Notify Admin
aoist statements:
- http://cpnm.org/new/English/statements/2005/statements_1feb2005.htm#st1
I guess New Delhi is a major base of operations for them, according to the release.
"....palace coup .... women, dalits, and janjatis ......military dictator king Gyanendra.....dictators like military dictator Pervez Musarraf and feudal monarch Gyanendra.......full democracy i.e. republican system.....Gyanendra Shahi....most infamous feudal clique in corruption, smuggling, killings and terror.....historic task of establishing republic..... a minimum common slogan of people?s democratic republic and constituent assembly.......royal proclamation, which is trying to push the Nepalese society of 21st century back to the 15th...."
"..The flame of the People?s War will go on blazing till the so-called Royal Army that has been defeated in all the fronts with the great People?s Liberation Army, under the leadership of our Party, is dissolved and the arms are surrendered to the People?s Liberation Army..."
"....In this great struggle against medieval feudal monarchy propped up by the U.S imperialism and Indian expansionism ....we call upon all the friends of Nepal in India and Nepalese people in India to join the massive rally on Feb 13, 2005 in New Delhi, Mumbai, Chennai, Kolkata and Chandigarh...The CC (P) calls upon all the revolutionary and democratic people of the Indian subcontinent to rise in united struggle against the expansionist Indian ruling classes and their mercenary army...The CC (P) calls upon the Jawans of the Indian army, who hail from the toiling classes, not to involve themselves in killing their class brethren by participating in the unjust military campaign of the Indian Government......."
(1) The minimum common program talk: Constituent Assembly. That could be a compromise position.
(2) The anti-India, anti-US rant. Off-putting. They are not understanding the complexity of both India and US. These large countries are not monoliths. They are diverse pieces on the map. Curiously they set up their rallies in that same India! It is like Nepalis in America going on and on against the ideal of democracy. These Maoists rant against India in India.
(3) These guys go on and on with their classic Maoist talk. That is scary. I mean, if Pol Pot is your hero, who exactly are you?
Going by their statements, the Maoists and the Monarchists are going for a head-on military conflict. Not a good development at all.
wheels Posted on 02-04-05 10:12 PM Reply | Notify Admin
e all are worried about where Nepal is heading, but we have to be cautious about how the media feeding us. Remember Zee TV trying to manipulate the situation in Nepal and showing clip of old video shots to present the situation of rioting which was not happening. Let?s not believe the outside media they never depict the true situation of people. Finally someone with courage has taken a responsibility to settle the matter, we need to support him. I am not a King supporter but I consider myself a nationalist and I believe he is the kind of person we need today. I have seen enough in Nepal and was partly a victim of these netas while working in government office purely as a technical person, they are never serious about the future of our country, all they cared was about their position in the party. They do not deserve to lead our country. Let?s give this king a chance, at least he has shown some courage, he is putting everything at stake, for what? isn?t this something? Let?s not get carried away by false media and off shoots of these netas. We need to support him, we might never get another chance. We gave opportunity to those netas our 15 yr?s of life so why are we so reluctant about giving 1/5-th of this time to King? Nepal is not yet ready for so called democracy, especially if it is triggered by neighboring bully.
paramendra Posted on 02-04-05 10:29 PM Reply | Notify Admin
hree forces: (1) King (2) Maobadis (3) Parties.
KING
Good Points:
(1) Represents the most deeply rooted institution in the country.
(2) Effective, clever.
(3) Will settle for Constitutional Monarchy and Multi-Party Democracy if forced to do so.
Bad Points:
(1) Does not "get" democracy. Talks all Mahendra talk when talking about political parties and the democratic experiment.
(2) Inflexible on many counts, especially in opposing any possibility of a Constituent Assembly.
(3) Cunning, not magnanimous.
(4) Doubled royal budget after sacking Deuba first time around. That is brahmaloot, much larger what the Congressias did in the 1990s.
(5) Surrounded by lackeys and yes-men, a small clique, holdovers from the Panchayat.
MAOBADIS
Good Points:
(1) Have given voice to marginalized groups like women, dalits, janajatis, the poor.
(2) Willing to find common ground with a Constituent Assembly.
Bad Points:
(1) Violence. Human rights abuses. Child soldiers. Abductions. Extortions.
(2) Continued propagation of defunct Maoist and Old School Communist thinking. Ill-informed rants against India and the US.
(3) Might not stop at Constituent Assembly. Might then set up a new goal of a "dictatorship of the proletariat."
PARTIES
Good Points:
(1) The only long term hope for the people, for democracy, for rapid economic growth and large scale poverty alleviation, and rapid modernization of the country.
(2) Non-violent.
(3) Patient with the monarchy to an unusual degree.
Bad Points:
(1) Did not make the best use of democracy in the 1990s. Did not get together against corruption instead the Congress pretty much institutionalized it. Did not try to address the ethnic grievances of inequality. For socio-economic rifts in general.
(2) Replaced one ruling class with another.
(3) Not pragmatic in terms of uniting for the common cause of democracy.
(4) Not flexible enough on the Constituent Assembly option so as to possibly get the Maoists to come into the mainstream.
POSSIBLE COMMON GROUND: Constituent Assembly
But only if the Maoists disarm prior to the elections.
Possible way to getting there: UN mediation with the pre-conditinon that the Maoists must disarm.
ALTERNATIVE: Maobadi-Monarchist bloodbath. Major human rights abuses by both sides. Political paralysis. Economic hell.
KALANKISTHAN Posted on 02-04-05 10:34 PM Reply | Notify Admin
heels, haha... yaah, Zee TV ko Wednesday ko News...
7:00 or something ko news ma they showed everything good good about the situation of Nepal despite the sudden political change. They even showed an interview of some Indians who got back to India after the KTM-Delhi flight was resumed. 2 hours later, the tone of the news was suddenly changed. hehe... Old footage, and "oh we are really pissed" coverage...
Freedom of press, to tell whatever they want to tell, or to tell whatever they are told.
PARAMENDRA: Whoever told you ITALIC is cool to read, lied to you. Can you believe I actually had to cut and paste it to wordpad to read that? (Only to find out they were just parts of the actual news posted in the links... aaaaaaaah!!! February ma April FooL?)
NepaliCNN Posted on 02-04-05 10:48 PM Reply | Notify Admin
ARTIES - "Non-violent" ????
Ooops, you are actually right - Parties can be considered to be the least violent. Maoists probably are the most violent and the Monarchy(army) has in some way challenged them.
Confused Posted on 02-04-05 11:32 PM Reply | Notify Admin
aha, parties non voilent re? yah exactly NepaliCNN, i think he meant Less Voilent then Army and Maobadi.
paramendra Posted on 02-05-05 7:33 AM Reply | Notify Admin
ome movements from King G.
- http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4238823.stm
Nepal's new government, led by King Gyanendra, has vowed to crack down on corruption and speed up land reform....A royal commission would be set up to investigate corruption, and to seize and nationalise property amassed through abuse of authority and smuggling....bring in positive discrimination for the lowest castes, women and indigenous people.
- http://www.theage.com.au/news/World/Nepals-army-targets-rebels/2005/02/05/1107476853484.html
There is speculation mobile phones may be switched off for the next six months and the internet may be out even longer. Because the Maoist Peoples Army is constantly on the move it would seriously disrupt its ability to plan attacks.
- http://www.newkerala.com/news-daily/news/features.php?action=fullnews&id=68736
Arrested leaders may be released
.....the number of politicians jailed in a countrywide crackdown against political dissent stands at "hundreds".
- http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/feb/05nepal.htm
..decided to form a Royal Commission within 15 days to probe corruption cases against politicians....government made public its 21-point programme and promised to form a land bank within 15 days to distribute land to the landless. ... agitators burnt eight vehicles outside Kathmandu the day emergency was imposed.
- http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/130991/1/.html
...ordinary Nepalis interviewed in the capital Kathmandu said that if they had to choose between peace and democracy, for which many have been pressing, they would choose peace. .... the king will no longer be able to hide behind successive governments for the failure to find peace with the Maoists, as he has until now......The task facing King Gyanendra is tough: find peace, organise elections and reestablish democracy in three years as he has promised, all the while developing the economy of the country, one of the poorest in the world.
- http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/130606/1/.html
....the rhythm of life in the city does not seem to have been disrupted.....Shops are open and schools are in class. Taxi drivers are stuck in traffic jams, women shop in markets and tourists browse the boutiques. ...At the Shankardeb campus, students have symbolically stopped the holding of exams while waiting to be called to action. ...Asked their opinion of the week's dramatic developments, most voice as much suspicion of politicians they consider corrupt opportunists, as any anger towards the King Gyanendra.
- http://www.newkerala.com/news-daily/news/features.php?action=fullnews&id=68691
What contributed to the dismissal of the Sher Bahadur Deuba government? The stars, say Nepal's astrologers......Though King Gyanendra ascended the throne in 2001, he has still not been coronated according to full traditional rites due to the absence of an auspicious date since then.
He has inducted some janajatis into the cabinet. But names like Harka Gurung, not reassuring.
The anti-corruption drive. Will it be all talk and no action? Or rather a way for the king to get even with the political leaders? Will the drive also include taking the royal budget to what it was before 2002?
No madhesi presence in the cabinet. At least the Congressias used to have token representation of a community that just so happens to be 50% of the country's population.
The guy basically wants to rule as an executive, like a Prime Minister. I guess he has been polishing his managements skills in the private sector, the world of business, before ascending to the throne.
paramendra Posted on 02-05-05 8:51 AM Reply | Notify Admin
am personally angry at King G's clampdown on internet and international phone calls. That brings my online business to a total hault. And if it is going to stay that way for months, the business totally comes to an end!
:-)
mailaadai Posted on 02-05-05 9:58 AM Reply | Notify Admin
ramendra, I think you should thank King G really. I think your business was going nowhere, and this might be a good excuse to get out of it.
Personally I have faith in you, but in business I am real doubtful about you. Sorry!
usofa Posted on 02-05-05 10:29 AM Reply | Notify Admin
HINA Vs INDIA (is media trust worthy?)
Nepalese gov't to show new face before nation
www.chinaview.cn 2005-02-05 21:40:30
KATHMANDU, Feb. 5 (Xinhuanet) -- The newly formed Council of Ministers, or cabinet, chaired by Nepal's King Gyanendra, is showing a new face to the public by assuring good governance and determination of hitting hard on corruption.
In its first meeting after being formed on Wednesday, the 10-member cabinet decided to implement a 21-point reform plan, which will focus on anti-corruption, good governance, economic growth and poverty alleviation.
The cabinet meeting decided to set up a Royal Commission within15 days to probe and take strong action against those who amassed huge property by evading tax and smuggling, state-run Radio Nepal on Saturday quoted a statement of the cabinet office as saying.
The government will empower the Commission for the Investigation of Abuse of Authority, an anti-graft body, both technically and infrastructure-wise, to facilitate its actions against corruption rampant in the country.
The government will set up a land bank and make judicious distribution of land to squatters, landless peasants and freed bond laborers.
With a view to alleviate poverty, the government will initiate a long-term program to modernize farming, implement small and big irrigation schemes.
The disabled, underprivileged and lowest casted students will be provided with free education up to secondary level along with free textbooks and provision of scholarships.
As the tourism industry has huge prospects in Nepal, the government has formulated a master plan to provide necessary cooperation and facilities to hotels, resorts, tourism destinations and tourist industries.
Addressing unemployment issues, the government decided to generate employment opportunities in the country, besides seeking opportunities abroad.
Nepal's King Gyanendra dissolved the coalition government led by Prime Minister Sher Bahadur Deuba on Tuesday and imposed an indefinite state of emergency throughout the country.
The state of emergency in Nepal, instead of affecting normal lift in the country, has brought about a rare peaceful situation in the capital Kathmandu.
Street demonstrations, various strikes and vandalism on government vehicles, which were quite common in Nepal for the past several years, have disappeared since Tuesday.
Shops, schools and gas stations are running as usual and no long queue is seen. And all kinds of foods are available on the market.
The only inconvenience to the people living in Nepal, including foreigners, is all kinds of communications - telephone, mobile phone and internet connections -- have been cut off since Tuesday.
On Wednesday, King Gyanendra formed a 10-member new Council of Ministers, or cabinet, under his chairmanship. The main task of the cabinet is achieving peace in the country and holding general elections within three years.
Home Minister Dan Bahadur Shahi said on Wednesday, since the guerrillas has insisted they would only talk with the king, and the executive power has been revested to the monarchy, he new expected the guerrillas to start the dialogue with the new government.
More than 11,000 Nepalese people have lost their lives since the anti-government insurgency broke out in early 1990.
Many Nepalese people welcome the king's move, starting it as "timely and a positive step."
King Gyanendra's "historic and inevitable step will open up new avenues for the development of the nation by maintaining law and order, restoring peace, protecting democracy and consolidating real multi-party system as per the will of Nepalese people," said Manju Ratna Shakya, president of Nepal Journalists Association.
"Most of Nepalese people expressed firm belief that peace will be restored in the country," Shakya said. Enditem
paramendra Posted on 02-05-05 3:44 PM Reply | Notify Admin
he response of the Indian political parties is quite spring. I guess this is not 1960.
- http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=64149
The CPI(M) today brought almost all secular parties except the Congress under a platform to protest against the ??abrogation?? of democracy in Nepal. ..... All these parties will hold a national convention for the restoration of democracy in Nepal on February 24 in the Capital.....
- http://www.telegraphindia.com/1050206/asp/nation/story_4343896.asp
..the Left today made it clear that it is willing to express solidarity even with the armed rebels if they fight for restoration of democracy in their country....The Congress was left out of today?s meeting, which was attended by the CPI, Forward Bloc, RSP, Nationalist Congress Party, Rashtriya Janata Dal, Janata Dal (Secular), Samajwadi Party and the CPI (ML).....with some saying a tough stand should be taken against Gyanendra to keep India?s credentials with Nepal?s political parties intact.
- http://www.voanews.com/english/2005-02-05-voa13.cfm
Since the government takeover, several of Himal Media publications and some other independent newspapers have published editorials on archery, ballet dancing, and the importance of wearing clean socks. .....He and other Nepalese journalists want the international community to cut off aid to the government and impose sanctions on Nepal. That, they believe, is the only way freedom of expression will return.
- http://www.ndtv.com
A survey conducted just three months before the February 1 coup shows people preferred the democratic government to absolute monarchy, even though they were fed up with the unstable political situation....."People want the government to include all sections of society, including the Maoists, under a new constitution,".....
Looks like it will be very hard for King G to carry on his stunt for three years as he has said he will. That is too long a time. There is intense international pressure. As well as domestic discontent.
Possibility of economic sanctions loom.
sagarlaure84 Posted on 02-05-05 5:35 PM Reply | Notify Admin
O PARAMENDRA
GET YOUR NUMBER STRAIGHT DAG! MADHESIE PEOPLE DO NOT MAKE 50 PERCENT OF
NEPAL'S TOTAL POPULATION.
paramendra Posted on 02-05-05 6:42 PM Reply | Notify Admin
n response to this thread:
- http://www.sajha.com/sajha/html/openthread.cfm?forum=2&threadID=19507
To: MeriNepalAma (what a username!)
(1) Dipendra also brought Nepal onto front pages all over the world. Getting into news is not necessarily a good thing. This also is one of those cases.
(2) The Maoists in their purity would do what the king has done. Take away all your rights. So don't put the Maoists and the parties together. Instead put the Maoists and the Monarchists together. They are quite alike.
(3) 21 point agenda. That is how every lame administration also starts. The point is not that the agenda looks good. The point is the person putting that on the scene has not been elected by the people. Who elected Gyanendra?
(4) You bring up corruption as an issue and then show some numbers. 5)To prove that royal palace is not corrupt, please make the account of royal earnings transparent. Please let us know why you increased royal budget from 60 millions to 600 millions as soon as you came in power. 6) Do check corruption in Army too, they are also one of the corrupt organization and now 70% of country?s budget is going on army?s hand. Do not let them misuse it. Royal budget goes from 60 million to 600 million. Army budget becomes 70% of total national budget. Look at all that taxpayers' money the king and the army are taking. Is that not corruption? Which Govinda Raj Joshis of the world induldged in corruption at such a massive scale?
(5) China. Pakistan. North Kora. King G has company!
You guys do not "get" democracy and yet live in America. Look around!
Keith Bloomfield, the British ambassador, believes that Nepal has breached its commitments under the Vienna Convention in severing the domestic telephone links of foreign missions, including the British embassy.......rebels relied on pre-paid mobile telephones to communicate and they would be hampered
NK Posted on 02-05-05 6:47 PM Reply | Notify Admin
:)Param+Indra, Param+Indra.. Hi.
I am here , I guess. Just so that you know I have replied to your reply in that thread. herna nabisa hai?
paramendra Posted on 02-05-05 6:57 PM Reply | Notify Admin
ost of the Sajha oldies are gone. So it is nice to see you!
I hope you have not become one of those who read/scan through threads, but do not write.
wheels Posted on 02-05-05 7:05 PM Reply | Notify Admin
used to believe that Madhesi?s are Nepalese in heart, anyway we cannot generalize a whole community based on one character, can we? Anyway we Nepalese do not need Hindustan times or Times of India to tell us what is happening in our country. Be a Nepali and think for Nepal. Not for any person or party.
Peace!!
orion Posted on 02-05-05 7:18 PM Reply | Notify Admin
hat was below the belt, wheels. People are posting in Sajha because they love their country no matter what their view points are on the Royal take over. The reason we have to rely on the Times of India or Hindustan Times, is because our great leader stopped our very own papers from printing anything except stories about smelly socks and filthy air.
usofa Posted on 02-05-05 7:56 PM Reply | Notify Admin
पश्चिमी नेपाल के प्रमुख औद्योगिक शहर नेपालगंज में आज सुबह हुए विस्फोट और फायरिंग में एक व्यक्ति की मौत हो गई है जबकि 17 लोग घायल हुए हैं.
घायलों को पास के एक अस्पताल में भर्ती कराया गया है जिनमें से दो लोगों की हालत गंभीर है.
मरने वाला दूध बेचने वाला भारतीय व्यक्ति बताया गया है.
एक स्थानीय पत्रकार राजेश सिंह ने बताया कि विस्फोट शनिवार सुबह आठ बजे त्रिभुवन चौक बाज़ार में हुआ.
बताया गया है कि संदिग्ध माओवादी विद्रोहियों ने पुलिस की टुकड़ी पर बम फेंका था लेकिन बाज़ार में चलने वाले आम लोग इसकी चपेट में आ गए.
wheels Posted on 02-05-05 8:11 PM Reply | Notify Admin
es brother, READ you can but RELY on Times of India or Hindustan Times, can we?
orion Posted on 02-05-05 8:35 PM Reply | Notify Admin
oint taken, wheels. Unfortunatley, in this absense of any reliable news source out of Nepal, many people are in a conundrum as to who to believe. As of today, I am more likley to believe what comes out of the Hundustan times than the Nepali Times because as much as I like the latter, I know there is an Amry colonel lording over them and telling them what to write and what not to. That's the reason I want press freedom - I would like to trust my home press more than any other press in the world.
My two cents :)
wheels Posted on 02-05-05 9:23 PM Reply | Notify Admin
es brother, I agree about the army thing I had have several unpleasant encounters with them and their indirect threats, it's life things as such happen. Anyway, truth and fact is the necessity not propagandas.
paramendra Posted on 02-06-05 1:52 PM Reply | Notify Admin
his guy Wheels. Is he out of his mind?
I have been trying to understand why there has been such an outpouring of support for the king here at Sajha. By now I think I have a good idea why. It is because the king represents the staunchest Nepali Speaking High Caste Male institution there is on the planet. And so all these homesick pale riders, these NSHCMs in the west, they are riding King G's tails, because they feel their identity affirmed.
They do not care about democracy or the country. All they care about is their narrow ethinc identity. People feeling lost in the winds of globalization are thankful one king gives them a sense of identity.
That is what is happening.
Wheel, I write under my real name. Maybe you should too. And enter a more meaningful dialogue.
I do not have to reveal my real name or identity to participate here at Sajha. But I choose to. My website has more stuff about me than you or anyone might care to know: http://www.paramendra.com
Well, dumbo, let me enlighten you. India is my motherland and country of birth. It means to me what Nepal means to you, you freaking lost cause. So don't go around badmouthing India. You pathetic sick soul. You would like to give an impression you love Nepal, but you don't. You don't have the capacity. Your entire "nationalism" can be defined as anti-Indianism. That is not love of Nepal, that is hatred of India. Not even hatred. Because you don't have the stature to hate India, never will. If you love your country, try expressing it in positive terms. It can not be expressed through hate speech of any kind.
And sagarlaure84 First of all, stop shouting. Get some manners. Second, you get your numbers straight. What are your numbers? Madhesis are half of Nepal. That is a fact.
NepaliCNN Posted on 02-06-05 2:06 PM Reply | Notify Admin
armendra's posting are always controversial. It is his trait. Finally, he has come out to be honest about his background (I might have missed earlier). Given his background, it's understandable why he is always trying to incite fire amongst Nepalese. Only if he could succeed in making it a part of India, then he wouldn't have to worry about leaning towards fatherland or motherland. Oh yes, Madhesis do make half of Nepal. Common guys dont you know that Raxaul, Jaya-Nagar, etc are also part of Nepal!
wheels Posted on 02-06-05 4:04 PM Reply | Notify Admin
aramendra sorry if I hurt your feelings, and I did not know that you are an Indain. I spend my childhood in India. I used to play crickets with my Indian friends. I used to read about Subhasa Chandra Bose, Bhagat singh Rabindra Nath Tagore and many more. I was always inspired by them and love for their country. I used to admire India for its military strength demonstrated during those Independence day, celebrated every yea. I was always fascinated by the colours of India.
But, Parmendra since you know so much about India and Nepal I would like to ask you one straight question, do you think India has ever been fair to Nepal when it comes to times as such? Had, The government of India not played villaneous role in 1990 Nepal would have been a self-relient nation. Probably with democracy that is raised from the genuine voice of the Nepali people. We have trouble of our own and this is internal. Please, we do not want another musical instrument trying beat different tune in this unrythemic environment.
Besides, I do not have that kind of handsome face that I can post in Sajha.
Peace bro!!
wheels Posted on 02-06-05 4:23 PM Reply | Notify Admin
esides Parmendra, I believe human thing comes first and then probably follows nationatility\family\beliefs etc.
Peace Bro!!
paramendra Posted on 02-06-05 5:24 PM Reply | Notify Admin
NepaliCNN. Finally, he has come out to be honest about his background...
Oh, really? Finally? All that info is at my personal website. Go look. It has always been only a few clicks away to any Sajha reader.
.. why he is always trying to incite fire amongst Nepalese. Only if he could succeed in making it a part of India..
I am aware of a Nepal where people who speak for Madhesi and Janajati rights are labelled "communal" and not those who marginalize these communities in a systematic way.
By the way, I do believe a South Asian economic union is the only real solution to poverty in Nepal: http://southasianunion.blogspot.com
wheels: I did not know that you are an Indain.
I am not!
I was born in India to an Indian mother. But my father is Nepali, though both are from Mithila, so have the same cultural background. I hold a citizenship of Nepal. Though am also a Permanent Resident of the US. I hope to get citizenship also in the US, but only if I do not have to lose the one in Nepal. Heck, if possible, I would like to be able to acquire a citizenship also of India. I am a global citizen. I am a netizen. Need I say more?
wheels Posted on 02-06-05 5:46 PM Reply | Notify Admin
armendar, in times as such in Nepal what is more imortant for you Nepal or India or our Madhesi community? To tell you something more about myself, my mother did part of her education in Ghandi Ashram in India and I was brought up by her to respect, serve and be loyal to my motherland Nepal. I do not judge people by their nationality or community.
Peace Bro.
paramendra Posted on 02-06-05 5:47 PM Reply | Notify Admin
his is my response to some of the comments here:
- http://www.sajha.com/sajha/html/openthread.cfm?forum=2&ThreadID=19507
OPEN LETTER TO KING
[ORIGINAL POSTING] To, H. M. 5. King Gyanendra Bir Bikram ...[MeriNepalAma] 02-05-05
I am just trying to keep my comments all at one place if possible.
MeriNepalAma: ".... Chiranjibi wagle use to be a street vendor of chill know as "khursani maila" now he has 60 million that is corruption in 60 fold....... that is just a example... "
Hello. I am the strongest critic of the Congress folks.I hope the Congress goes down to having 20 MPs or less: that should be their punishment. But don't ditch the system.
Tripathy in the 1990s brought some major anti-corruption legislation. Maybe guys like you should support him and not your own ethnics.
"..Right now we have to support him because it is last hope and its already proven that democratic leaders have no balls to deal with maoist and no way they are going to fight corruption...... "
How can one so corrupt himself go after corruption? And how exactly can he take care of the Maoist problem if he is not willing to go for a Constituent Assembly? The army is the same. How will they perform better under the king?
King G is indirectly responsible for the breakups in the Sadbhavana, the Congress, the RPP. Now he is trying to breakup the UML by inducting a Mainali bro into the cabinet.
"..
tyo chalauna lai desh lai maya garne mutu bhayeko neta chahincha....."
Wrong. The leaders do not matter. You need one person one vote. The people take care of themselves.
Some one tried to preach me US democracy, just turn your head and see how US is trying to establish democracy in Iraq.... they are doing so using force... and they have to do that because the force opposing them is with gun and power too..
The US helped organize elections for a Constituent Assembly in Iraq. Will King G go for such an assembly?
NK. Even yo? This is a you-too-brutus moment. I am surprised. So you support the king's move? Why? But why?
About America's role in international affairs. I am a strong critic and I believe this is the solution: http://un21.motime.com
I am a strong critic of race relations in America. I have major disagreements with the anti-progressives.
But then international relations are not democratic. And racism is lack of the democratic spirit.
newuserr: I am the son of a poor farmer brought up and educated in a democratic Nepal. I have excelled high in study and I am holiding a respectable job in a top corporation of the west at present.NO mandale can shake my position and no mandale gaali will shake my resillience against Tyranny in Nepal..........Why can't you convince people that your king is better then the leaders and prevent them from staging protests against autocracy. Why cut off telephone lines and put the country in darkness??
Way to go!
DeepBlue: Paramendra, don't try to be a Guru of Prajatantra here.We have seen your Madhisi color all over Sajha.Do you ever speak of entire Nepal and not of Madhishes?
If you have seen my Madhesi color, it must be something to do with the fact that I am a Madhesi. As for speaking about this or that group, I have spoken for Madhesis, for Nepal, for Tamils, for Palestinians, and so on. Depending on context.
orion makes a lot of sense.
A country does not have to be deemed fit for democracy; rather, it has to become fit through democracy - Amartya Sen, Nobel Laureate
Great quote. He is the leading authority in the world on issues in human capital. Don't tell me Gyane has a greater insight into the ordinary Nepalis than Sen.
ritu: King's move will do nothing for us. Army had power in the past also and did nothing and it will do nothing now as well. Nepal is already divided, gyanendra will rule Kathmandu and district head quarters and Maoists will rule the rest.
Great. How has the king's move changes the Maoist situaiton for the positive?
madhav: The stability is only for King, the sufferers were the people prior to Democracy, during democracy and even under KING RULE. If nepal would be stable and developed under King rule, it would have been so hundred years ago. I don't support King's move.
Correct.
Democracy has shortcomings, god knows Nepali democracy in the 90s had numerous shortcomings, Girija foremost among them. But democracy is self-correcting. It allows you to speak against its shortcomings.
I think the Nepali Congress should split into four more factions and each end up with about 2 MPs each. That is how you punish their corruption. You don't take away the system.
People here claiming Panchayat was better than Democracy. It is like Bush supporters in America thinking Saddam was behind 9/11 and not Osama. Factually wrong, but politically very powerful.
paramendra Posted on 02-06-05 5:50 PM Reply | Notify Admin
wheels
It is Paramendra like in Gyanendra, not Parmendar like in Alexander, though Alexander is a bigger name.
"..in times as such in Nepal what is more imortant for you Nepal or India or our Madhesi community?...."
You are offering me a false choice, and it is everything to do with your anti-Madhesi, anti-India prejudice. I do not have to choose between Nepal or India or the Madhesi community. Madhesis are very much part and parcel of Nepal, so to me or to you, to think of Nepal is also to think of Madhesis at the same time. Think you?
wheels Posted on 02-06-05 5:54 PM Reply | Notify Admin
.K I understand you dont want to answer.
Good Luck.
paramendra Posted on 02-06-05 6:12 PM Reply | Notify Admin
ore news.
- http://www.hindu.com
The government would take action against any opposition party or Maoist insurgents if they gave a call for general strikes aimed at disrupting normal life, the statement said, adding that a state of emergency has been declared in the interest of the public to consolidate the state of law and order in the country.
- http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1013312.cms
They said the government is spreading ?terror and panic? and Nepalese people are living under an ?illegal? military rule violating international practices and legal standards, BBC said in a report. They also said human rights activists are being increasingly monitored and harassed.......... A body of the University teachers said the Lower House of Parliament (HOR) should be reinstated and a legitimate government formed to restore fundamental rights and individual freedom.
- http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1013158.cms
Nepal today is reminiscent of the dark days of the Emergency unleashed by Indira Gandhi in India three decades ago. Only worse. If journalists were asked to "bend" by Indira Gandhi, King Gyanendra has ordered them to "crawl", roll over and play dead.
- http://www.keralanext.com/news/indexread.asp?id=107176
Kandel defended the government's dismal performance to frequent interference by the King.
- http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-02/05/content_2552225.htm
..set up a Royal Commission within15 days to probe and take strong action against those who amassed huge property by evading tax and smuggling....The government will empower the Commission for the Investigation of Abuse of Authority, an anti-graft body, both technically and infrastructure-wise, to facilitate its actions against corruption rampant in the country.......... The government will set up a land bank and make judicious distribution of land to squatters, landless peasants and freed bond laborers........... a long-term program to modernize farming, implement small and big irrigation schemes.....The disabled, underprivileged and lowest casted students will be provided with free education up to secondary level along with free textbooks and provision of scholarships.....The state of emergency in Nepal, instead of affecting normal lift in the country, has brought about a rare peaceful situation in the capital Kathmandu.....Street demonstrations, various strikes and vandalism on government vehicles, which were quite common in Nepal for the past several years, have disappeared since Tuesday.......... Shops, schools and gas stations are running as usual and no long queue is seen. And all kinds of foods are available on the market.........King Gyanendra's "historic and inevitable step will open up new avenues for the development of the nation by maintaining law and order, restoring peace, protecting democracy and consolidating real multi-party system as per the will of Nepalese people," said Manju Ratna Shakya, president of Nepal Journalists Association.
- http://www.keralanext.com/news/indexread.asp?id=106892
...when he froze the country's telecommunications network, but he has inadvertently crippled ATM and credit card transactions and brought banking to its knees. ......So post-February 1, bankers no longer push buttons on an e-pad to communicate. They use runners............Every morning, the cars parked outside Nepal's main banks - Everest, Standard Chartered, Nabil and Nepal Banijya - make a strange sight. Top bank executives pass on message chits to their drivers, who flit from bank to bank and branch to branch, carrying instructions and confirming transactions. .........And for a country whose people work elsewhere so that they can send money back home, even the lifeline of remittances is now snapping....Airlines cannot confirm tickets as the online reservation system is out. Tickets are being given on first come first served basis, with passengers paying in cash............``Our clients will now move to India or southeast Asia,'' predicted the head of a Thamel BPO. ``Who will want to come here now?''
- http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/feb072005/i2.asp
..According to intelligence sources, some politicians have joined hands with the Maoists who were fighting the monarchy......the army would carry out ?more focussed? action against Maoist insurgents to disarm them and bring them to political mainstream.
- http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=64229
Pade_Queen_no.1 Posted on 02-06-05 7:18 PM Reply | Notify Admin
heel,
Which Gandhi Ashram did your mother attend? Sabarmati Ashram?
If the premise that Parmendra is more Indian than others just because
he happens to be from the Terai (i.e. ethnically a Madhise), holds
true, then it should also hold the same for King G. After all, his
great-grand mother, mother of Grivanyugdha Shah, was a maitheli jha
bramhani, a madhisini, as you would have liked to call her. Likewise,
his grandmother, King Mahendra's mother belonged to the madhesh of
India. So, with all the mixing that has already taken place one should
refrain from calling each other a lesser or greater Nepali based on
his ethnic composition as long as luv for the nation overrides the luv
for ethnicity. Finally, knowledge of a particular ethnic group should
be welcomed since we would get to know each other more leading to a
stronger nation - again as long as ethnic knowledge is not a
jingoistic propaganda of ones enthnicity.
NEPALKOCHORI Posted on 02-06-05 9:44 PM Reply | Notify Admin
was with a group of Nepalis who were from Terai. They speak great Nepali with thier teraii accent. Most people in Terai like Bhairawa ..birgunj...I have met are Nepali to me.
But I was in a teraii nepalis home once here in the and the group of these dark nepalis were talking about Sonia Gandhi and Indian politics......nothing abt Nepal..it was almost as if secretly they were all considering India nd NEpal as one.
I don't trust Teraii nepali born in India by a Indian woman..to be a Nepali citizen. Thats why nepal doesnt have dual citizenship..they fear rise in such indian population. I am sorry.
kdee Posted on 02-06-05 10:46 PM Reply | Notify Admin
ou mean one cannot trust a person solely based on who he/she was sired by, ie caste culture and creed or where they were born.
and that you would implicity trust someone who looks like you with your life.
WTF
and your phrase " dark nepali " made me lmao.
get with it gurl.
the colour of your skin does not dictate what you are as a person, kya.
but having said that,
the red on the neck of your fair and graceful body is quite distracting. :)
sorry fot the OT
carry on folks.
paramendra Posted on 02-06-05 10:52 PM Reply | Notify Admin
Pade_Queen_no.1. Thanks for the good words. Just one caution. The term is Madhesi, not Madhise.
NEPALKOCHORI. I don't need you to trust me. You are largely irrelevant to my idea of who I am and what my identities are.
As for the dual citizenship idea, that is the best thing Nepal could do to increase direct foreign investment in Nepal, and it is only a matter of time before Nepal puts the process in place, like India already has.
paramendra Posted on 02-06-05 11:09 PM Reply | Notify Admin
epal Update : The 5th Day after the King's Military Coup[1]
Nepal Democracy Desk(s), Kathmandu
5 February 2005
Latest:
Tara Nath Dahal, the President of Federation of Nepalese Journalists
(FNJ) was reportedly arrested by the Royal Nepal Army (RNA) this
morning from Kathmandu. Immediately after his arrest, the FNJ
nominated their General Secretary, Bishnu Nisthuri, to the post of
Acting President, in order to go ahead with the struggle for democracy
and the right to freedom of opinion, expression and the right to
information. Nisthuri was also reportedly arrested by the army this
afternoon. FNJ was one of the first civic associations to strongly
condemn the king's military coup and to have announced a resistance
for the reinstatement of democratic rights including the freedom of
opinion and expression. There are also unconfirmed reports that Netra
KC, the local correspondent of BBC Nepali Service, was arrested by the
RNA from Nepalgunj today.
Pro-democracy school teachers and political activists from Chitwan
district were also reportedly arrested by the RNA this morning.
There are reports of the RNA going around the town to big businesses
houses with prepared statements welcoming the king's takeover of
power, and forcing businessmen to sign the statements at gunpoint.
These statements are subsequently published in the newspapers and
broadcast through television and radio as advertisements paid for by
the businessmen themselves.
The cabinet meeting held at the royal palace, chaired by the king,
announced its programs for reforms in the country. One of the most
publicized programs is about the plan to form an anti-corruption
commission within 15 days, with the authority to investigate and
nationalize property got through corruption. It was not stated whether
the commission would have the jurisdiction to investigate the
corruption scandals involving the royal palace, king Gyanendra, the
army top brass and the panchayat-time corrupt politicians.
The Foreign Minister, Ramesh Nath Pandey, held meetings with the heads
of diplomatic missions yesterday and the day before yesterday, at his
office. The implications of these meetings are not known. The
government is publicizing the fact that the meeting took place. Aid
agencies are reportedly discussing about their strategies. According
to informal sources, they are seriously contemplating discontinuing
large parts of the development aid to the government.
Resistance
Jan Morcha Nepal, one of the four parties agitating for democracy and
also the one involved in anti-Maoist campaigns as well as nationwide
peace campaign until recently, has decided to launch a campaign for a
Democratic Republic of Nepal. In this connection, they will start
distributing pamphlets in Kathmandu from today, and in rest of the
country from tomorrow.
Pro-democracy underground newspapers have started being published and
distributed in Butwal since yesterday. CPN (UML) Central Committee
Members held a secret meeting yesterday and have decided to launch a
movement for democracy in coordination with all the major
parliamentary political parties including the Nepali Congress.
Leaders of all seven student unions have held underground meetings
together, and have agreed to form a joint front to struggle for
democracy. Most of the student leaders not yet arrested have regrouped
and reorganized their strategies. Their first protests will be
spontaneous, surprise demonstrations in Kathmandu and distribution of
pamphlets.
Civil society groups are meeting to plan pro-democracy protests
starting next week. After the government warned of serious
consequences to the people speaking out against the king's coup, many
political and civil society organizations have started openly defying
the warning. Several dozen political organizations and civil society
groups have issued statements condemning the coup and demanding the
restoration of democratic process.
Political arrests continued on Friday, conditions of detainees unknown
For the first time since February 1, the Nepali broadsheets have
carried news on the whereabouts of some of the leaders detained or
under house arrest, based on the information provided by the Home
Ministry yesterday (updated namelist will be included in the next
bulletin). Independent verification of these reports is obviously not
possible now. Moreover, the list of district level leaders arrested
from around the country have no been made public. In the absence of
media and international gaze, and the well-known records of blatant
disrespect of human rights by the king and the military, the
likelihood of mistreatment against them is very high. According to our
sources, a few dozen political leaders who had been detained at the
Armed Police Headquarters, Halchowk, Kathmandu were reportedly
blind-folded, put into army vehicles with opaque glass windows, taken
to Tibhuwan airport, and from there flown to Kakani and Panchkhal
barracks o helicopter, with a 'Russian pilot'. Their conditions are
not known. According to the Home Ministry reports, the government
charged some of the arrested or detained leaders under the Public
Security Act and put them under 'preventive detention' for three
months. However, the Royal Nepal Army spokesperson Deepak Gurung said
yesterday that the five former prime ministers, main leaders of the
parliamentary political parties, and their cadres were detained or put
under house arrest 'for their own security'.
paramendra Posted on 02-06-05 11:11 PM Reply | Notify Admin
--- cntd
Arrests of political leaders continued yesterday. The newly arrested
leaders include the central committee members of Nepali Congress
(Democratic), and ex-ministers ? Prakashman Singh, Bimalendra Nidhi,
Homa Nath Dahal, Prakash Sharan Mahat and Minendra Rijal - who were
arrested from their party office in Kathmandu yesterday afternoon. On
Thursday, the Nepali Congress (Democratic) leaders had decided that
they would gather at their party office everyday as a symbolic gesture
of resistance against the coup and to discuss the future moves.
Newspapers also carried some reports of arrests of political leaders
and activists outside Kathmandu after the king's military coup. Senior
Nepali Congress leader and former Deputy Prime Minister Ramchandra
Poudel was arrested from Tanahu. The General Secretary of Nepali
Congress, Sushil Koirala, along with over a dozen political activists,
was arrested from Nepalgunj on Wednesday. Thirty-five pro-democracy
protestors including Amod Upadhyaya and Ashok Koirala, Nepali Congress
leaders, and Guru Baral and Naresh Pokharel, CPN (UML) leaders, were
arrested from Biratnagar on Tuesday, who were reportedly moved to the
prison yesterday. They were reportedly charged under the Public
Security Act, and put under 'preventive detention' for three months.
Similarly, 21 pro-democracy protestors including the Nepali Congress
leader Ganga Dutta Joshi, who were arrested from Mahendra Nagar
earlier, were also reportedly moved to the Kanchanpur prison
yesterday. They were also slapped with the Public Security Act and put
under preventive detention for three months.
The army is raiding the houses of civil society and political leaders
Army personnel visited the houses of some human rights activists, who
were reportedly on the hit list of the army even before the king's
military coup. The human rights activists were not at home at the time
of these visits. The army personnel also raided several times over the
past week the house of one of the most popular democratic student
leader of Nepal, Gagan Thapa. They misbehaved with his family members
and took away his photographs from family albums. There were reports
of the Nepal Bar Association representatives being threatened or south
by the army.
News from outside the Kathmandu valley are very difficult to gather
and verify. The phone lines were active for about two hours yesterday
afternoon and additional two hours in the evening. The social and
political activists that our team had access to in the districts are
either in hiding, or even when at home, feel insecure to divulge
detailed information over the phone which they suspect might be tapped
by the army. However, in the last three days, our team members called
up sources in Pokhara, Nepalgunj, Nawalparasi, Chitwan, Birgunj,
Janakpur to gather information. From each of these places, several
dozen political activists and student leaders were reported to be
arrested. Their whereabouts are not known. Given the trend, it can be
safely assumed that arrests of political leaders must have taken place
in many of the remote districts around the country.
Firing from helicopter and torture against pro-democracy protestors
Our team received reports from very reliable sources of the torture of
the students from Prithvinarayan Campus, Pokhara. Fifty-eight
students, out of the hundreds who were peacefully protesting against
the king's coup inside the campus premises on 1 February were arrested
by the Royal Nepal Army personnel and taken to the nearby army barrack
the same day. Their hands were tied at the back and all of them were
blindfolded. They were then severely beaten by the army personnel with
fists, boots, sticks, and butts of rifles. Then they were made to
sleep inside a "trench" without any bedding outside in the open for
the whole night. Everyone of them visited by our source in Pokhara
reportedly had bruises on their body, which have been photographed.
There are very credible reports that the army fired tear gas shells
and rubber bullets inside the campus premises from helicopter. Out
team members are trying to get information on whether the helicopter
used was provided by the Indian or the UK government as military
assistance to the RNA and the King. The national Human Rights
Commission has confirmed that it has received the reports of over 250
pro-democracy students being beaten inside the campus, a helicopter
being used to fire tear gas shells and bullets against the protestors,
and a few dozen of the protestors being taken to the army barrack and
tortured. An NHRC official is quoted by an international newspaper as
saying that they plan to conduct a fact-finding mission regarding
this, but said that 'it is too dangerous for them to conduct a field
visit at this time'. One international newspaper has described the
Pokahara repression as 'Nepal's Tinanmen Square'.
Reports of clashes with the Maoists: No way to check the ground reality
paramendra Posted on 02-06-05 11:12 PM Reply | Notify Admin
--cntd
There have been unconfirmed reports of at least a dozen clashes
between the security forces and the Maoists in different parts of the
country. According to the reports of Nepal Samacharpatra daily, the
Royal Nepal Army has reported that the royal security forces killed at
least 8 'Maoists terrorists' since 1 February 2005 in Lamjung (4),
Sunsari (1) and Achham (3). The army has also confirmed that a major
clash is taking place in Rasnalu, Salu and Doramba of Ramechhap
district, and the Maoists launched an attack against the army in
Jogbudha of Dadeldhura district. The Maoists reportedly set fire to
vehicles along the east-west Mahendra highway. Although, there has
been no effect of the bandh closure called by the Maoists in
Kathmandu, reportedly, the rest of the country was virtually
completely closed for three days, 2nd-4th February.
National and international human rights organizations have documented
the consistent and systematic disregard of human rights and
humanitarian laws by the Royal Nepal Army ever since it was out of the
barrack in November 2001 to fight the Maoist insurgency. This happened
at a time when there were at least a relatively free press, active
national and international human rights organizations monitoring the
situation and some semblance of a civilian government. After 1
February 2005, it is extremely worrying that the RNA might go berserk
and unbridled in the rural areas, given the fact that they have
nakedly shown post February 1 they do not feel accountable to the
national or international community and despise the idea of democracy,
human rights and accountability.
For instance, on Friday the RNA claimed that one wounded Maoist under
their custody was shot dead as he tried to escape, in Fushre, Sunsari.
They also reported that the three Maoists were killed in Accham in a
'sudden encounter'. In Lamjung, they claimed that they had found the
corpses of four Maoists shot dead in the course of retaliatory fire,
and claimed that there were many more deaths. In the absence of free
media and monitoring by independent human rights groups, the following
questions remain worryingly unanswered: (a) exactly where and in how
many places did the clashes take place? (b) were non-combatant
civilians killed and then labelled as 'terrorists'? (c) have there
been extra-judicial killings, torture and arbitrary arrests and
unlawful detentions of the captured Maoists even if they were
combatants or Maoist political workers? (d) are the pro-democracy
activists belonging to the parliamentary political parties arrested,
detained, tortured, or extra-judicially killed in the name of the
Maoists?, and (e) are the families of the RNA, Armed Police Force and
the Nepal Police who might have died in the clashes deliberately
denied the information about their deaths or abduction in the name of
preventing 'loss of morale' among the state forces?
There are reports that the RNA has started major operations in several
parts of Nuwakot district adjoining Kathmandu. According to the
report, the RNA is rounding up every one in the villages, killing
civilian villagers indiscriminately, while the Maoists have escaped
and regrouped elsewhere.
paramendra Posted on 02-06-05 11:12 PM Reply | Notify Admin
---cntd
The spokesperson of the RNA publicly announced yesterday, and was also
quoted by Reuters on February 4, that 'Now we can solely go after the
Maoists in a single-minded manner without having to worry about what's
going to happen on the streets, people's agitation.' The Chief of RNA
reiterated the commitment towards human rights and the Geneva
Convention in the course of fighting the Maoists, and also vowed to
crush the Maoists militarily so that they would come to the
negotiating table. These words are obviously hollow for the following
reasons: (a) it is now accepted nationally and internationally that
solely military action will not resolve the civil war in Nepal, (b)
the RNA and the king do not have any political organizational base in
rural Nepal, and pushing the political parties into total opposition
will weaken their capacity considerably, (c) the latest military coup
by the king hurts the pro-democracy political forces in the short run,
but will bolster support for and morale of the Maoists, who are used
to fighting the RNA anyway, (c) there will be strong opposition to the
RNA getting further military support from India, UK and the US, which
it and the king clearly misused to clamp down on democracy and to
further their authoritarian grip on power, (d) the coup has suddenly
made the prospects of pro-democracy political parties or at least a
large section of their cadres negotiating with the Maoists for
toppling monarchy, (e) the claim or hope that there will be no
pro-democracy peaceful movement on the streets is very naïve, and (f)
it is totally unbelievable that the RNA and the king, who have so
nakedly clamped down democratic rights in Kathmandu despite near
universal condemnation, will respect the human rights and humanitarian
laws in rural Nepal, which will in a very short period anatgonize even
more rural people against them. There is a distinct possibility of
some of the political activists of democratic dispensation getting
radicalized and led into believing that the international and national
community recognizes and negotiates only with those with guns and
army, if they feel they are cornered only because they are unarmed.
This could lead Nepal into a disaster.
Free media remains dead: creative resistance reminds of Panchayat days
The Kantipur and Rajdhani dailies in Nepali did not carry any
editorial today. Kantipur yesterday carried an editorial on women's
cricket in Nepal, and on the need for internationalizing the Nepali
tradition of archery, the day before. The Kathmandu Post's editorial
today was on 'Socks in Society', and yesterday on the nice weather in
Kathmandu which the editorial complained was not usually appreciated
by the Nepalis. The Nepali Times weekly yesterday carried the
editorial titled, 'Hariyo Ban, Nepalko Dhan', the Panchayat time
rhyming cliché, 'Green forests are Nepal's wealth'. The Nepal Samachar
Patra daily's editorial today complained about the frequent 'load
shedding', the power cuts, in Nepal.
The announcement on Thursday by the government that nothing critical
of the king's move may be printed, published or broadcast for the next
six months were repeatedly broadcast from the television channels,
published as notices in the major newspapers and repeatedly emphasized
in the news and bulletins of the government-owned media. The notice
that the FM radio stations, community radios and private television
channels were forbidden from broadcasting any news, views or opinions
not favourable to the king's address were also advertised or broadcast
many times today. The free media remains completely crippled and under
close and continuous surveillance. Kantipur daily, for instance, was
made to publish on Thursday the report of the last meeting of the
Royal Council Standing Committee, a rights wing group of royalists who
had drawn much criticism from Kantipur several weeks ago.
Communication remains disturbed The phone lines were operational for
about two hours last night and also for about two hours this
afternoon. The mobile phones and internet services are not yet
operational. According to sources at the Nepal Telecommunication
Corporation, there are rumours in their office that the phone lines
will not be fully operational for at least another 11 days and that
mobile phones will not be operational for about one month.
________________________________
[1] Regular E-Updates by the Nepal Democracy Desk(s) in Kathmandu:
dozens of pro-democracy activists based in Kathmandu have started this
e-update from 5 Feb 2005, five days after King Gyanendra staged the
military coup on February 1 2005, suspended all civil liberties,
jailed political leaders, muzzled the media, and continues his reign
of terror with daily arrests of political and civil society leaders
despite the near universal condemnation of his authoritarian move.
this is dedicated to the people of Nepal who deserve more, not less,
democracy to correct the ills of our country)
paramendra Posted on 02-06-05 11:15 PM Reply | Notify Admin
Press Statement signed by Girija Koirala, President of Nepali Congress, smuggled out of his residence
The press statement signed by G.P. Koirala on 2 February 2005 was smuggled out and is being circulated clandestinely. He termed the royal address as a coup d'etat, and denounced it strongly. He has stated, "The King's unconstitutional moves from the day one have been opposed by all of us." He has further stated that "In this grave political situation, when hundreds of political leaders and party workers, including myself, are under house arrests, I appeal all democratic forces to join hands and move ahead collectively against the royal coup d'etat in order to restore the sovereignty on the people again and protect the 1990 democratic constitution".
Statement by Nepali Congress Spokesperson: "An all out rejection of the royal takeover"
Arjun Narsing K.C., the Spokesperson and Central Committee Member of Nepali Congress (NC), issued a strong statement against the royal takeover on 5 February 2005, titled, "Saddened and Outraged: An All Out Rejection of the Royal Take Over". The statement states that, "Nepali Congress, a democratic party that fought several times for the establishment and restoration of Democracy in the country since the last 60 years or so, is deeply troubled by the royal takeover of February 1, 2005. Ever since the restoration of democracy in 1990, extreme rightists and reactionary elements were working in secret to defame and destroy the multi-party system and the democratic institutions".
In the three-page long release, K.C. has warned, "Despotic rule of monarchs and feudal lords and authoritarian regime rampant till 18th and early 19th century is an out-modeled concept, rejected by modern day man. Revival of such model of political dispensation is not sustainable and bound to fail." The statement states that the "NC urges all the democratic forces to set aside their differences and spearhead toward establishing a full-fledged democracy in the country."
Nepali Congress has expressed "its sincere thanks to our well-wishing nations India, United Kingdom, the United States of America, the European Union, and to those human rights organizations dedicated for the cause of democracy, all of whom immediately condemned the royal takeover and requested the monarch to restore multi-party system and democratic dispensation as enshrined in the 1990 constitution".
More draconian directives from the king on 6th February 2005
(from The Kathmandu Post)
His Majesty the king in accordance with Clause 7 of Article 115 of the Constitution of Nepal 1990 has issued various orders.
According to a notice published today by His Majesty?s Press Secretariat, travel buying and selling of assets and stay in the country are allowed but that should not disturb the sovereignty, integrity, peace and security and should not have adverse impact on the state of emergency. The order has also mentioned that the local administration can prohibit the aforementioned activities if needed.
According to the order, if His Majesty?s Government feels it necessary then the regional administrator, chief district officer or any assigned official can temporarily or permanently transfer ownership of any tangible and intangible asset after due compensation.
The order has also mentioned that activities like seminars, gatherings, meetings and interactions, which do not affect the sovereignty , integrity, peace and security of the Kingdom of Nepal and do not go against the state of emergency, can be organized in a predetermined venue, after receiving prior permission from the regional administrator, chief district officer or any assigned official.
According to the order, His Majesty?s Government can appoint , transfer, depute, delegate authority or place appointments in vacant posts, temporarily to government employees for the period of the state of emergency.
The employees of the Secretariat of His Majesty?s government , Ministries or the departments under it, and other offices or the offices under His Majesty?s Government are prohibited from setting up any kind of organization having political affiliation, and any such existing organization should stop all activities, that affect the sovereignty, integrity or peace and security of the Kingdom of Nepal, the order says.
paramendra Posted on 02-06-05 11:16 PM Reply | Notify Admin
---cntd
The order also prohibits making any direct or indirect public comment regarding the work of the security agencies that could affect the morale of the security agencies.
During the state of emergency, if the security personnel, security official or any assigned official feels it necessary, then he can monitor or ban the use of telephone, radio, fax, television, email or any other form of electronic media.
According to the notice, anyone violation the aforementioned points, disobeying orders, or non-compliance to the same thereof, can be immediately put under house arrest and action may be initiated against such persons. The notice has also stated that whatever is mentioned in the order will be as per the order and points not covered by the order will be as per existing laws.
More arrests and intimidation
(please see separate attachment for the latest list of people arrested)
Nanda Bhandari, Secretary of Nepal Bar Association, Appelate Court Unit, Dang, and Lok Prasad Pant, President of Civic Society, Dang were arrested by security personnel on 4th February 2005.
Indu Sharma, a student leader of the Nepali Congress-affiliated Nepal Student Union was arrested from inside the Saraswoti Campus, Sorakhutte, Kathmandu on 6th February 2005.
Meanwhile, the Nepali BBC Service reported that the President of Federation of Nepalese Journalists (FNJ) Taranath Dahal has not been arrested. Netra KC of BBC Nepali service, was arrested and detained for three hours in an army barrack in Nepalgunj and then released.
There are reports from around the country, including from Biratnagar and Nepalgunj that the local administration and Royal Nepal Army are calling the journalists to their offices and warning them not to publish any news or views against the king's directive.
Army personnel "visit" human rights organization
The army has apparently continued their attempts to track and arrest human rights defenders. Army personnel visited the office of the peace and human rights network, Collective Campaign for Peace (COCAP), at Anamnagar, Kathmandu on Friday, 4 February, at 5:30 pm and on Sunday, 5 February, at 9:00 am. They were asking the whereabouts of the coordinator of COCAP.
Pro-democracy and anti-monarchy demonstrations start
The Nepal Communist Party of Nepal (Unity Centre Mashal) held a surprise torch rally from Bhotahity, Kathmandu yesterday evening against the military coup by the king. They also distributed pamphlets denouncing the coup and declaring the start of their movement for Democratic Republic of Nepal.
There were reports that surprise protest rallies against the king's coup were held on 6 February in Ilam, Jhapa and Sunsari districts in east Nepal.
paramendra Posted on 02-06-05 11:16 PM Reply | Notify Admin
---cntd
Students in various campuses in Kathmandu have started putting up black flags to oppose the king's coup. For instance, such black flags were put up in the women's college of Kathmandu, Padmakanya College, and the Saraswoti Campus, Kathmandu. They were subsequently removed by the security personnel, who warned the college administration that they would face stern action if such scenes were repeated in the campus premises.
The students inside the Padma Kanya College wrote large graffiti-style slogans on the ground of Padma Kanya College: "Republic Area: Strictly Out of Bounds for Gyanendra".
Political weeklies among the first to resist dictatorship
Deshantar, a weekly newspaper close to Nepali Congress, carried news related to the royal takeover. It published the list of leaders arrested and detained. It left the whole second page, the editorial and opinion page, blank, with only one quote at the top by the Abraham Lincoln, "The gun can never be more powerful than people's opinion." Another political weekly, Bimarsha, also close to the Nepali Congress, had adopted a similar strategy of protest and defiance on Friday, 4 February. The Deshantar today also carried the details of the international condemnations against the king's coup. A poem calling for the poets to write more for the people and country was also published, which at this juncture may be interpreted as a call for resistance against the anti-people move by the king.
The Deshantar weekly has claimed that the king has a list of about 1000 pro-democracy political and civil society leaders he wants arrested.
Journalists being laid-off by private media houses
There are credible reports that private FM radio stations, television channels and the newspapers are laying off many of their journalists.
No political editorials
Some of the major papers including the Kathmandu Post did not carry any editorial today. Those which did were related to non-political issues. The editorial by Kantipur daily complained about the inconvenience caused by the continued cut off of phone lines.
Human rights organizations continue their demands for restoration of democracy and human rights
Human rights organizations continued condemning the royal takeover and demanding restoration of democracy and human rights. The first joint statement was issued on Thursday, 3 February, by representatives of 14 human rights organizations, and the second was issued on Friday, 4 February, by 25 human rights organizations. Krishna Pahadi, the leading human rights activist of Nepal issued another strong statement yesterday. It is to be noted that the government announced on 2 February that any criticism of the king's move would result in serious consequences.
paramendra Posted on 02-06-05 11:17 PM Reply | Notify Admin
--cntd
Tourism industry suffering
Tourism related businesses including the travel agencies and hotels have reported extremely high number of cancellations of bookings. After the cold and snowy winter, this is the period when the tourist season starts. Businessmen blamed the international publicity related to the king's coup and especially the closure of telephone and internet services for the sharp rise in such cancellation of bookings.
Human rights worker felicitated by the new minister
One of the human rights workers, president of Nepal Human Rights Organization, Sudeep Pathak, was felicitated this afternoon by the newly appointed Minster for Education and Sports, Radha Krishna Mainali, for his contribution to the cause of human rights and peace.
Indications towards formation of a negotiation committee by the government
There were reports that the government has indicated that it might form a Negotiation Committee soon to attempt to start talks with the Maoists. The former Chairman of the Royal Council Standing Committee, Kesharjung Rayamajhi and the Minister for Culture, Tourism and Civil Aviation, Buddhi Raj Bajracharya hinted that in a talk program at Reporter's Club this afternoon. The Maoists have however stated that they will not negotiate with king Gyanendra whom they termed "national betrayer". They have instead announced that they will strive for the establishment of a people's republic of Nepal.
Regular E-Updates by the Nepal Democracy Desk(s) in Kathmandu: dozens of pro-democracy activists based in Kathmandu have started this e-update from 5 Feb 2005, five days after King Gyanendra staged the military coup on February 1 2005, suspended all civil liberties, jailed political leaders, muzzled the media, and continues his reign of terror with daily arrests of political and civil society leaders despite the near universal condemnation of his authoritarian move. this is dedicated to the people of Nepal who deserve more, not less, democracy to correct the ills of our country)
paramendra Posted on 02-06-05 11:53 PM Reply | Notify Admin
ews:
- http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?storyID=7551297&type=topNews
...royalist government will soon appoint negotiators who will hold unconditional peace talks with Maoist rebels .... both sides admit they cannot win on the battleground and can only fight to strengthen their hand in any future peace talks .....
- http://www.ndtv.com
The army is not treating the politicians well .... India dreads the prospect of Maoist takeover in Nepal ....
- http://news.ft.com/cms/s/afef2baa-78af-11d9-9961-00000e2511c8.html
Gyanendra's royal coup already appears to have backfired.....he has always had a taste for power.....When King Birendra in 1990 agreed to establish democracy in the isolated Hindu kingdom, Gyanendra rowdily disputed the move. Similarly, the younger sibling was reported to be critical of the allegedly soft response of the Royal Nepal army to the Maoist insurgency when it began in 1996......Gyanendra appears to believe much more readily in his divine right to rule than either his brother or his father did.....Many who would otherwise revile the brutal Maoist insurgents now express a sneaking sympathy with their demand for a republic.....Gyanendra's move was deliberately timed as close as possible to the summit so that he could claim legitimacy by shaking hands with Manmohan Singh.....Yashwant Sinha, India's last foreign minister, who knows the king well. "This reckless step has not only given the Maoists fresh impetus but it might ultimately lead to the abolition of the monarchy. It certainly makes it easier for India to imagine such an outcome."......Many who have dealt with him remark on his intelligence and quick wit.....
- http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/story.jsp?story=608387
A picture on the front page showed a statue from the temple to the Hindu god Vishnu covered with pigeon droppings. ....Yesterday's Kathmandu Post had no editorial, perhaps a sign that the royal censors have caught up with the journalists. A front-page item on the victims of a drink-driving accident some time ago seemed out of place, but then, King Gyanendra's son, Crown Prince Paras, is alleged to have killed four people in drink-driving accidents.
- http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1013226.cms
King Gyanendra may soon find out that he has bitten off more than he can chew. The international community has put aid on hold. The Maoists have summarily rejected his overtures. And now, the discredited political parties, which till last week used to fight constantly with each other, are trying to regroup. ....
- http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1012758.cms
- http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=7548621
...Nepal is now destined for a surge in violence as the army-Maoist fighting intensifies and political protests eventually get under way...."The king has never disguised his distrust for political parties' leadership and reflecting the public's disenchantment with them, but the people's lack of support for the parties does not necessarily translate into support for the king."......Successive governments and military offensives have failed to swing the war against the Maoists. Both sides admit they have ground to a strategic stalemate where neither can win on the battleground.......The Maoists, modeled on the former Chinese leader but disowned by Beijing, control large swathes of territory......the dilemma for Nepal's allies was to apply enough pressure on the king to restore democracy, without strengthening the rebels
- http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=64113
The Indian military assistance is now worth close to Rs 374 crore......
paramendra Posted on 02-07-05 6:03 PM Reply | Notify Admin
ews clips:
- http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=466&ObjectID=10009904
Gyanendra has been trying to take back his late brother's surrender of absolute power in 1990 ever since, and on February 1 he made his move. ....the Maoists are real ....They were winning already, but now they are going to start winning a lot faster. Gyanendra's Government has lost its legitimacy, he is not personally popular, and he has never displayed any notable political or military talent. .....No Indians were killed last year by Islamist terrorists except in the troubled states of Jammu and Kashmir, but more than 500 Indians were killed by Maoists. ......in democracies as in ecology, every imaginable niche is filled..... how the relationship between the two giant Asian neighbours evolves as they grow over the next generation or so to match the United States in wealth and power.....That is why India (and also the US and Britain, chief purveyors of arms to the Nepalese Government) should act now to force the stupid king to step back and restore the democratic constitutional order. ....No matter how incompetent democratic politicians are (and Nepal's do not lead the class), it is only they who have the legitimacy to resist the Maoists successfully.
- http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?storyID=7551297&type=topNews
..daring him to "fill the jails"......
- http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1014377.cms
Rs 300/min: Satphones beat Nepal ban ....
- http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=64293
- http://www.thestatesman.net/page.news.php?clid=2&theme=&usrsess=1&id=67922
Nepal Congress to join hands with Maoists
SILIGURI, Feb. 7. ? The Maoist movement in Nepal is likely to gather mainstream political momentum soon. As part of the planned movement of political parties of Nepal in a same platform, the Nepal Congress Party has decided to welcome Maoists and join hands with them.
During an interview with The Statesman today, the central committee member of Nepal Congress Party and the party organisation chief, Mr Krishna Prasad Sitoula said that almost all democratic political parties of Nepal, including Communist parties, have joined hands to put up a fight against the Nepal?s King Gyanendra, who has dismissed the government and taken all powers in his hand.
Mr Sitoula said that the Nepal Congress, the Nepal Communist Party UML, Janmorcha Nepal, Nepal Mazdoor Communist Party, Nepal Sadbhawna Party, Ananda Devi and alliance of five small Communist parties of Nepal have come together on a platform to start a movement against the monarchy.
He said: ?We are not against the Maoists? demands. We support their ideology regarding the monarchy. But we don?t want the path of violence.? Mr Sitoula added that they would hold discussions with senior Maoists.
paramendra Posted on 02-07-05 6:27 PM Reply | Notify Admin
Constituent Assembly, Republic, Federalism
- http://nepal.motime.com
South Asian Regional Economic Union
- http://southasianunion.blogspot.com
Reorganized UN
- http://un21.motime.com
NepaliCNN Posted on 02-07-05 6:38 PM Reply | Notify Admin
he corrupt leaders are joining hands with Terrorists(Maoists). It just makes things easier for the King. Looks like the King made quite a good strategic move.
paramendra Posted on 02-07-05 10:10 PM Reply | Notify Admin
ongress and Maoists.
- http://www.ndtv.com
- Maoist rebels in Nepal have called for a countrywide road blockade and indefinite strike from February 13......The strike will continue until King Gyanendra withdraws his decision to take over power......Meanwhile, a senior leader of Nepalese Congress has proposed an alliance with Maoists to help restore democracy in the Himalayan kingdom....."We will contact Maoists to come with us for the cause of democracy," said Nepali Congress leader and former MP from Baitari, Vinaydhwaj Chand.....He claimed there was no harm in taking the support of Maoists for the restoration of democracy in Nepal, but the movement should be peaceful.
- http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Story.asp?Article=103902&Sn=WORL&IssueID=27325
NEW DELHI: Two senior Nepalese politicians sheltering in India yesterday asked Maoist insurgents not to hold talks with King Gyanendra ...... The royalist government headed by the king earlier in the day offered to hold unconditional talks with the rebels to end the insurgency ....
- http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/feb/08claude.htm
The coup renders a complex situation even thornier. .....The Maoists on their side are looking for new sources of income as the scope and the extent of their movement is increasing...... In 2002, the then Chinese ambassador to Nepal had explained: 'China labels the insurgents as anti-government outfits, and we never call them as Maoists. They misuse the name of Chairman Mao, which impairs the image of the great leader of China.'.....
paramendra Posted on 02-08-05 10:46 PM Reply | Notify Admin
he SEBS thread on the topic:
- http://www.sebsonline.org/forum/forum_view.aspx?F=1&T=60355
- http://hindustantimes.com
Guess who?s backing Nepal coup? VHP ............
- http://news.ft.com/cms/s/1fb46b9c-7a1a-11d9-ba2a-00000e2511c8.html
The rally will be the first independent mass gathering
- http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=64339
Maoists here in India too are planning demonstrations in five cities on February 13 ....will hold rallies and demonstration in Delhi, Chennai, Mumbai, Kolkata and Chandigarh.
And as the Maoists prepare to organise solidarity demonstrations, the trickle of Nepalese politicians into the country continues. Rajendra Mahto, general secretary of Nepal Sadbhavana Party (A), today met the media in the Capital and appealed to his ??countrymen and political forces to unitedly launch a struggle against the authoritarian regime??. He did not condemn the Maoists but hoped that they would be a part of the peaceful struggle against the tyranny of King Gyanendra.
- http://news.ft.com/cms/s/afef2baa-78af-11d9-9961-00000e2511c8.html
The reckless monarch ....
- http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?storyID=7568920
Sunning himself on his roof, guarded by heavily armed police in plain clothes or blue camouflage, the leader of the largest party in the ousted four-party coalition, Madhav Kumar Nepal, cheerily tells a journalist: "I am under house arrest."
Close by, at a busy roundabout in central Kathmandu, bored police in riot gear fiddle with their lathis, or bamboo sticks, adjust their protective gear and ask a foreigner: "Can you get me a security job in London? How much do they pay?"
- http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/09/international/asia/09nepal.html
.. a group of nine United Nations human rights officials criticized the king ....
- http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/131613/1/.html
Nepalese leaders could be detained for up to three months .... army's spokesman warned of a long and bloody battle ....Gurung estimated the strength of the Maoists, who have been fighting to install a communist republic in Nepal since 1996, at "anything from 6,000 to 7,000" hardcore combatants, a militia of 20,000 to 25,000 and about 100,000 sympathisers. ...."Any time we kill a combatant then his rank is filled by another one ... a militia maybe and then a sympathiser is trained to become a militia." ....Right now, the general added, the rebels' military wing was stronger than their political faction which is why they had to be engaged in battle. ....
- http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/HRW/ad3dc83127451441572c35312a82758d.htm
..a campaign of arbitrary arrests, censorship, and general repression...the security forces, which have a history of widespread and serious violations of human rights.... "Our chief concern is that some of those being arrested may never be seen again....Among the immediate targets for arrest were the political leaders upon whom the King expressed scorn in his televised address....twenty-seven national political leaders are either under house arrest or in detention, including every prime minister since 1990......Virtually the entire human rights activist community has been forced into hiding....At a meeting with newspaper editors, the King's secretary reportedly stated that he would be unable to "help" if the military decided to "disappear" journalists or editors "for a few hours," a disturbing statement in a country that according to the U.N. had the highest number of reported new "disappearances" in the world in both 2003 and 2004.....The BBC's Nepali news service has been forced to suspend its broadcasts....Human Rights Watch is deeply concerned that abuses by the security forces will increase dramatically in the absence of international and local monitoring mechanisms, aggravating Nepal's already severe human rights crisis...."It is crucial for the international community to demonstrate that it will not lightly accept the King's abusive actions," said Adams. "If they act with a common purpose, the King and the army will have little choice but to reverse course.
paramendra Posted on 02-08-05 10:46 PM Reply | Notify Admin
- http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1015440.cms
- http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1015465.cms
Engagement, not estrangement is the new Indian buzzword on Nepal. Having displayed its displeasure about the royal power grab in no uncertain terms, India now looks prepared to play the game of realpolitik. .. "The king has bitten off more than he can chew. There are no spectacular military results: Captains and majors are patrolling editorial offices, practicing censorship and managing the emergency."
- http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1014603.cms
- http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/131427/1/.html
The 80,000-strong Royal Nepalese Army has remained faithful to its supreme commander...The top brass includes a majority from families loyal to the king....."quasi-military coup d'etat"......Analysts say the king may extend military control over the country of 27 million people by encouraging officers to move into civilian jobs as happened in Pakistan after General Pervez Musharraf staged a bloodless coup in October 1999. .....reduced his backing to "the Royal Nepalese Army, a small band of conservative loyalists and a handful of opportunists......that strategy is risky because the army lacks the troop strength to put down the Maoists who are present in all 75 districts of the mountainous country and launch attacks and road blockades at will outside the capital. .....The Nepalese Army was founded in 1762 and today consists of 22 battalions and 44 independent companies. .....Military spending has increased dramatically under Gyanendra. The official army budget was just 9.2 billion rupees (130.8 million dollars) in the 2004-2005 financial year, compared to a real figure estimated of 295 million dollars in the CIA's World Factbook.
.......Including funds spent on police, security accounts for nearly 15 percent of the 115.2 billion rupees annual budget, a Nepalese government official said...........With police, paramilitary and home ministry security forces, the government has 144,000 men to combat the Maoist insurgency, far below the ratio needed to counter insurgency given Nepal's terrain which runs from alpine to jungle, Sahni said. ..........The volunteer army recruits as needed drawing from a pool of young people eager for jobs in one of the 10 poorest countries in the world...."The military first of all is a good job and that ensures loyalty," he said. "Secondly there are perks like good housing, privileges for education and medical care and finally it reaches into every part of society giving respect."
- http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0502/S00108.htm
It is high time that people stop fanaticizing about the possibility of a stable, democratic polity when every fundamental element required for a democratic setting has been systematically eroded by the Maoists and our flawed politicians.....Aside from our corrupt and ineffective politicians, who have given up their chances at redemption, the Maoists are the gravest threat to Nepal's sovereignty.
I have been pasting a lot of these news pieces recently. I hope (1) they help readers save time, and (2) they provide for the background for the comments I do make. Kind of like with many political blogs.
paramendra Posted on 02-08-05 10:50 PM Reply | Notify Admin
wo top political blogs:
(1) http://instapundit.com/
(2) http://dailykos.com/
Both quote extensively. I have been following the same model at this thread.
I am selective in what quotes I present. That gives my slant to what I pick, and might save time for readers hoping to scan the stuff and not have to read major news articles.
Method. I get my news by searching for "nepal" at http://news.google.com
I recommend the method to any and all.
And, of course, I hope to make extensive comments. I have my opinions. Pretty strong ones too. But I try to, at times, step back and give the benefit of doubt also to differing viewpoints.
fiend_prophesied Posted on 02-08-05 11:36 PM Reply | Notify Admin
o pade_queen no.1 it looks like you are very intellectual person. I think you have very good sense of respect for every human beings. I got frens from diverse areas, Kudos.
Furthermore, to Nepalkochori it looks like you don't know a lot about human psycology coz what it says is "whatever gets feed into human brain comes out of his mouth" meaning "bollyhood" has currupted the mind-set of nepalese, especially people living in Terai, on top of that, everybody enjoys hindi movies and housewives watch "dhrabahik" that should include you too. By the way people who were influenced by "hollywood" came west and whoever watched "bollywood" still wonder why we talk about Indians. Well you probably speak in hindi too sometimes don't you. So stop being hyprocrate and learn to love people do not judge them regardless...... but I'm proud that you are so patroitic.....so am I... holla.
paramendra Posted on 02-09-05 7:20 PM Reply | Notify Admin
wo very different viewpoints from two foreign sources:
(1) http://us.rediff.com/news/2005/feb/10swadas.htm
There is no alternative but for India to make the defeat of the Maoist insurgency in Nepal its immediate and unwavering goal. The Royal Nepal Army has to be given all the assistance to mount an offensive against the insurgents to force them back to the negotiating table. The restoration of democracy is a medium and long-term imperative.
(2) http://www.iht.com/bin/print_ipub.php?file=/articles/2005/02/09/opinion/ednepal.html
In Nepal, only democracy can defeat the Maoists.
There is a lot of grey area in the whole debate, of course. But the question is, do you like Musharraf? Is he legitimate? Do you like the autocracy in Bhutan, the military junta in Burma, the communist dictatorship in China?
Democracy is not a situational thing. It is universally good and true. It is not good or not depending on time or place. Personally I stand on democracy's side.
paramendra Posted on 02-09-05 8:08 PM Reply | Notify Admin
ore.
- http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=64270
To step up pressure on Nepal, the Left has called for a national convention on February 24 for the restoration of democracy in Nepal. The Left parties have forged a front of all the non-NDA, non-Congress groups ? including the RJD, SP, SJP, CPI(ML) ? in fact all those groups who mounted an offensive for multi-party democracy in Nepal in 1989.
- http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000080&sid=atIRbjUOnO_o&refer=asia
- http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Story.asp?Article=104038&Sn=WORL&IssueID=27327
...a Supreme Court judge yesterday ordered his newly-appointed government of loyalists to explain the arrest of a former bar association chief... ...
- http://www.newkerala.com/news-daily/news/features.php?action=fullnews&id=70157
After a telephone conversation with Pakistani Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz Tuesday, King Gyanendra reportedly expressed confidence that Pakistan would set a new date for the South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation summit originally scheduled for Feb. 6-7 in Dhaka.
paramendra Posted on 02-09-05 8:11 PM Reply | Notify Admin
have also been following the elections in Bihar. What a contrast! The thriving democracy despite the poverty and the sometimes lawlessness.
The average Indian voter "gets" it. As in, see how they reacted to Indira's emergency rule.
paramendra Posted on 02-10-05 7:44 PM Reply | Notify Admin
ews items.
- http://sify.com/news/international/fullstory.php?id=13668587
In their first major offensive after the royal takeover, Maoists launched attacks on government buildings and police establishments, including a prison in far western Nepal, killing five police men and taking away nearly 100 inmates.
- http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1017502.cms
Those freed include founder leader of Nepali Congress and former PM Krishna Prasad Bhattarai, leader of CPN-UML Shahana Pradhan, former PM Lockendra Bahadur Chand, chairman of Rastriya Prajatantra Party Pashupati Shamsher Rana, chairman of Nepal Labours and Peasants Party Narayanman Bijucksche and chairman of Nepal Sadhbhawana Party Badri Prasad Mandal and chairperson of NSP Anandi Devi.
- http://www.progress.org/2005/fpif61.htm
by Kanak Mani Dixit
February 2005
First, he was taking over as executive monarch on the basis of a personal decision. Second, the royal address was full of denigrating references to political parties, who are the intermediaries for pluralism and democratic practice anywhere in the world. ..... the Royal Nepal Army's fight against the highly motivated and increasingly brutal insurgents thus far has been lackluster. ..... approaches could have included using the inherent powers of kingship to cajole the political parties to work together and establish a political front against the insurgents. But the king's deeply held feelings toward the political parties seems to have blocked off this avenue toward resolution. .... it is also likely that the Maoists will try to make common cause with the political parties. ..... the royal action will add strength to the insurgents' demand for a king-less republican constitution and government, a call that has been taken up with alacrity lately by many politicians. ..... In castigating the political parties, King Gyanendra preferred to hark back to the Parliament dissolved three years ago, while keeping silent over the interim period and his rule through palace-appointed prime ministers. This is the period when the peace and security of the country's populace plummeted more than in any previous period. ............
- http://cities.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=117112
Going by the attitudes of the people towards the monarchy, as revealed in our study, King Gyanendra?s coup has just made him one of the very unpopular figures in Nepalese history,? he said. ..............?Nepal has a very pluralistic society, which is struggling to find the right institutional framework for the nation?s governance.? .... This study of political attitudes of the ordinary Nepalese people, the first-ever study done in Nepal using the survey method, was completed three months back. It found that the Nepalese want a new Constitution and a system where even the Maoists are part of the government, he said. ... ?The Nepalese in general don?t feel so insecure from the Maoists as from the country?s social problems?. ............Expert predicts mass stir in Nepal soon
- http://www.dailypioneer.com
In the face of mounting anarchy let loose by the Maoists, the King indeed had a valid reason to impose Emergency - and this he did according to the provisions of the Nepalese Constitution. The Deuba Government had singularly failed to tackle the situation.
The protest registered by the likes of India, US, UK and the UN: are they mere formalities? Or do they come with follow-throughs?
Should not the political parties respond to the charges levelled against them? What do they have to say about the specific charges?
Jana Morcha now is formally for a Democratic Republic. Where are the rest? Where do they stand?
The king's offer for "unconditional talks," is that to mean the Maoists should not attach any conditions to them? Becaue it is public knowledge as to what the Maoists want? They want elections for a Constituent Assembly. They are not interested in a "tea party" in the name of talks, according to Baburam Bhattarai.
Instead, the king is trying to break open the Maoists into the military wing and the political wing, like he has been able to break up the Sadbhavana, the Congress, the RPP. And is trying to break up the UML by using a Mainali bro.
paramendra Posted on 02-10-05 10:23 PM Reply | Notify Admin
he raging debate at SEBS Online:
- http://www.geocities.com/paramendra/sebsthread.html
paramendra Posted on 02-10-05 11:07 PM Reply | Notify Admin
ivil war to escalate.
- http://www.newkerala.com/news-daily/news/features.php?action=fullnews&id=70661
The latest report of the International Crisis Group(ICG) has said that Nepal's King Gyanendra takeover of power will only worsen the situation ....... "King Gyanendra justified his coup on the need to beat back the Maoists, but it will have exactly the opposite effect"
- http://news.newkerala.com/india-news/?action=fullnews&id=70648
India can apply moral pressure and link its stand on normalising its relations with Nepal, including collaboration on the military front and economic assistance to restore status-quo ante before February 1 when King Gyanendra seized power, imposed emergency and clamped press censorship, former Foreign Minister Ram Sharan Mahat told PTI in an interview.
- http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1237418,001300980000.htm
Nepal's coup to intensify civil war: Think tank ..... the Brussels-based International Crisis Group (ICG) projected an intensification of the "civil war" and strengthening of Maoist insurgency .... the only way to achieve peace was "through effective military action combined with a political strategy that undercuts Maoist positions. Neither is possible without a broad-based democratic government."
- http://news.newkerala.com/world-news/?action=fullnews&id=70647
Nepal's Supreme Court has asked the Government to produce former Bar Association chief before it in connection with the habeas corpus petition against his detention.
- http://mnn.gospelcom.net/article/6992
by undermining democracy in the process, he may have strengthened the rebels' position. The Maoists now have less incentive to negotiate than ever.......
- http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1410419,00.html
police moved swiftly to smother protests in the capital and blocked the US ambassador from visiting senior political leaders under house arrest. .............Political parties say more than 1,000 people have been arrested under laws allowing detention without trial for three months. ....
- http://news.ft.com/cms/s/e6629570-7bd2-11d9-9af4-00000e2511c8.html
What could the political parties do? Could they gather around a Common Minimum Program of a Democratic Republic? Would that be like an umbrella? So far they have not budged. The Congress, UML, they are still for Constitutional Monarchy.
If the parties do not make themselves clearer, how will they approach the people?
tired Posted on 02-11-05 1:35 AM Reply | Notify Admin
hat do you think the parties will do? (Just bringing together some things I've read in other postS)
Possible Scenarios:
1. Make an alliance with the Maobaadi (violent OR non-violent), they are themselves terrorits and thus liable to tbe "encountered". Verdict: LOSS
2. Side with the king become Maobaadi's enemy. If Maobaadi win terminated. If King wins, suordinated. Protracted war, marginalized. Verdict: LOSS
3. Be independent. Yeah right, without guns, nobody's gonna listen to them, naturally marginalized. Verdict: LOSS.
Is there a way out for them? Can they SURVIVE?
It's sad if not because they are the last institutions that can (theoretically at least) truly represent the people.
paramendra Posted on 02-12-05 9:53 AM Reply | Notify Admin
tired, quite a mess, ain't it?
News.
(1) Looks like the king is now asking for 3 months, instead of the 3 years he started with. Looks like the guy is feeling the heat, the pressure.
(2) US, UK, India are going to follow up on their initial protest. It is not going to be a mere formality of words of protest.
(3) Maoist blockade seems to be working.
- http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200502/s1301566.htm
..rebels were massing in the remote west ..... the volume of traffic had dropped drastically .... Two similar transport strikes and road blockades called by the rebels in the past six months were enforced more by threats and psychological intimidation than by physical force. ..... They left the capital empty of essential goods and sparked price rises. ........ Most people in the capital, meanwhile, appeared oblivious to the blockade, which received no publicity in the media that has been heavily censored .... the blockade, which the rebels said would continue until the king reversed his power grab .... Military experts say Nepal's armed forces are ill-equipped to tackle the increasingly deadly Maoist insurgency .... King Gyanendra was reported Saturday by the Himalayan Times English daily as assuring India that the emergency would not last long, amid pressure from New Delhi and Washington, Kathmandu's main suppliers of financial aid and military equipment to face down the Maoist threats, for an end to the emergency and arrests of political leaders. .....Political parties claim up to 1,000 people have been rounded up since the king launched his crackdown. The army put the figure at around 100.
- http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L12658714.htm
Rebel chief Prachanda rejected any possibility of talks with the government headed by the king, a day after the interior ministry said it was willing to discuss all demands including a constituent assembly to decide the future of the monarchy. ..... He (Prachanda) urged the international community to stop aid to Nepal .... Kathmandu, a city of 1.5 million people, currently has two weeks of oil and enough food to last a month.....Diplomats worry Nepal could descend into anarchy and become a haven for international militants or drug traffickers...........
- http://news.newkerala.com/india-news/?action=fullnews&id=71264
The sight of policemen and military personnel was confined only to city limits and regular police outposts appeared deserted barely 10 km outside the town....... However, Maoists observed the anniversary in several villages with roadside rallies addressed by local area commanders of the self-styled "red army"..........In Khajura village, barely five km from this town, Maoists distributed sweets after addressing a rally in broad daylight.........Bombs and rallies marked the 10th anniversary
- http://news.newkerala.com/india-news/?action=fullnews&id=70945
.... the extremists have threatened to launch
their "final assault"
Saturday ......Barely 15 km ahead of the large post of the security forces at Shamshergunj, half a dozen armed Maoists were openly stopping all vehicles for a "check"..........That the rebels were backed by larger contingents under the cover of the forests right behind could not be ruled out. Two completely torched paramilitary trucks at that point further bore testimony to what the Maoists proclaim as their "act of valour"...........Positioned strategically close to a bridge in a densely forested area, the rebels were in combat fatigues and carried semi-automatic and self-loading rifles.............the Maoists' message was simple: "Don't venture out from tomorrow, keep enough food stocks in your homes."...........The Royal Nepalese Army...these uniformed personnel chose to remain blissfully unaware of the rebels not merely camping in the vicinity but making their presence felt quite blatantly. ...........Interestingly, as far as commuters were concerned, the questions posed by the Maoists and the security forces were almost similar.
- http://news.newkerala.com/world-news/?action=fullnews&id=70976
India, the US and Britain are said to be jointly pursuing a strategy on moves for restoration of democracy in Nepal .........made it clear in no no uncertain terms that they were not not amused by the King's actions. ..........the SAARC summit, an event looked forward to by the King in an apparent strategy to get instant international recognition
- http://news.newkerala.com/world-news/?action=fullnews&id=71198
...even though the king had made it clear that human rights were to be observed under all circumstances, his officials in the districts were violating the guidelines...
- http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/132158/1/.html
Nepal's fractured political parties and student groups are crippled by infighting ........February 1, his opponents have done little to mount any sort of challenge to the monarch............a history of infighting will make any alliance unlikely, even in the face of the most recent crisis.............described Nepal's political organizations as "feudal parties, unable to get along on anything". .......... their biggest obstacle is a long-standing disagreement over what shape democracy should take .............The leading Nepali Congress party is demanding the return of the government dissolved by Gyanendra in 2002, while the mainstream Communist Party of Nepal-United Marxist Leninist wants the election of a constituent assembly. .........The wave of arrests is spreading from high political leadership and goes down to students' movements ........."Now it is time for pro-democratic people to spend more time making plans for long-term strategy rather than reacting immediately because everybody will be arrested," countered one activist with another group, the Collective Campaign for Peace. ........
- http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1239029,001300980000.htm
King Gyanendra is believed to have said that he needs some three months ? 100 days ? to bring the situation in the country under control and remove curbs on citizens.
..........made the promise privately to the US ambassador to Nepal...........the aid could be suspended unless it reverses its decision, releases detainees and removes curbs............The US State Department has expressed concern that the king's move would aggravate the Maoist insurgency............
paramendra Posted on 02-12-05 9:55 AM Reply | Notify Admin
hat exactly could the king do?
He could go on Television, and give a speech announcing the elections for a Constituent Assembly and a restoration of all basic rights. That might be his only option.
What else?
paramendra Posted on 02-12-05 11:13 AM Reply | Notify Admin
gave him 3 months when he gave himself 3 years. Now he is giving himself 3 months, and I give him 3 weeks!
paramendra Posted on 02-13-05 6:22 PM Reply | Notify Admin
oth the Monarchists and the Maoists seem to be raising the stakes. The chaos for civilians has gone from bad to worse.
- http://www.newkerala.com/news-daily/news/features.php?action=fullnews&id=71766
A rebel spokesman said the group's previous demands were outdated and they would now focus on the abolition of the monarchy....
- http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1020037.cms
Encouraged perhaps by the success of their nation-wide indefinite blockade .... It is only Kathmandu that remains insulated from the traffic halt..... In Banipa, barely 25 km from the capital, a group of insurgents on Saturday blasted the mid-market statue of King Trubhuvan.
- http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1019835.cms
Nepal?s new government has ruled out any more appeals to Maoists to come for negotiations .... ?We still believe that they will come forward.?
- http://www.voanews.com/english/2005-02-13-voa18.cfm
paramendra Posted on 02-15-05 10:09 PM Reply | Notify Admin
ooks like the king is set to duplicate Burma.
(1) Stay the military course. Shun democracy.
(2) Forget international pressure. Domestic rule and revenues are enough, and there will always be a few that will play ball: Pakistan, China, North Korea, Burma.
From day one he has been in the game of expanding his power base.
(1) Get rid of the parliament.
(2) Split Congress, RPP, Sadbhavana.
(3) Induct a Mainali bro to see if that splits the UML.
(4) Call Maoists for talks with an aim to split the Maoists between the military wing and the political wing.
(5) Split the international community based on democracy and autocracy buffs.
Also the king seems to bring in all the prime ministers he "missed" after he was kiing and no longer king at age 4. Fillng the gaps, sort of.
- http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_full_story.php?content_id=82620
The six leaders included Sekhar Koirala (Nepali Congress-D), Pradeep Giri (NCP-UML) Gobind Prasad Koirala (NCP-U), Chandra Dev Joshi (NCP-Mashal) Chitra Bahadur KC and Rajendra Mahato (NSP-A). ........ six Nepalese political parties came together, for the first time on Monday, to form a united front for fighting the emergency ...Regarding recruiting Maoist support for their cause, he said that would be decided at a later date. .. ?In Nepal?s 240-year history, the most destabilising factor has been the king,? he said.
- http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4799970,00.html
The United States recalled its ambassador .......... Britain and France have also recalled their ambassadors. .....``We have to deal with whatever government is in office, but our sympathies lie with the democratic forces in that country,'' Indian Foreign Secretary Shyam Saran said......Kritinidhi Bista, 79, and Tulsi Giri, 78, were named vice chairmen of the 10-member Cabinet .....Rebel leader Prachanda said the king's action has ``ended any and all possibility of peace talks.''
- http://newsfromrussia.com/world/2005/02/15/58272.html
- http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4266767.stm
Mr Giri told Reuters that Nepal was acting no differently from the US after the World Trade Centre attack in September 2001, or from India in its fight against militants in Kashmir. ....The king moved to ease some restrictions on Monday, when he freed former premier Surya Bahadur Thapa, a prominent lawyer and a senior leader of the country's biggest communist party. .....the kingdom's biggest party, the Nepali Congress, is calling for a nationwide, non-violent struggle for the restoration of democracy from this Friday .........A transport blockade launched by Maoist rebels entered its fourth day on Tuesday, with traffic movement reported to be lower than normal and prices rising in the capital, Kathmandu. ..........The rebels say that the royal coup has forced them to abandon earlier negotiation demands and implement the blockade as a means of abolishing the monarchy.
- http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news/press/15936.shtml
Amnesty International?s Secretary General Irene Khan said:
"Our first meetings with human rights defenders have highlighted a picture of insecurity, deepened by uncertainty in the wake of the state of emergency, and fear, particularly for those who remain inaccessible in remote parts of the country.
"We are here to express our solidarity and support to them, and to explore practical means of ensuring their protection and that of other groups who are at risk."
....possible widespread human rights abuses, including the killing of civilians, committed by the Maoists during the ?bandh?.
- http://news.newkerala.com/india-news/?action=fullnews&id=72496
India under no obligation to supply arms to Nepal: Pranab
- http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1022129.cms
Britain and several other European Union countries have recalled their ambassadors in Kathmandu, in what's being seen as a somewhat delayed, but deeply significant global diplomatic frown at King Gyanendra's bloodless coup of a fortnight ago. ...British diplomatic sources told TOI that arms exports contracts with Nepal could be reviewed ......The EU continues to judge that there can be no acceptable military solution to Nepal's problems and that any search for a solution by military means by either side will only add to and prolong the suffering of the Nepalese people
- http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=64761
Giri, who was brought out of decades of political obscurity ....Giri said the government would have no choice but to go after the guerrillas if they kept rejecting peace talks.
- http://news.newkerala.com/india-news/?action=fullnews&id=72487
VHP sources said the outfit's supremo Ashok Singhal was likely to visit Nepal shortly and meet King Gyanendra
paramendra Posted on 02-15-05 11:49 PM Reply | Notify Admin
Scenario 1: King goes the Burma path. Totally ignores all international pressure. Keeps on keeping on. Bides for time. Is out of favor with three major foces: (1) Maoists, (2) India-US-EU, (3) Parties. But this would be hard to sustain. Very hard, indeed. I mean, how long can the unelected Mayor of Kathmandu claim to be King Of Nepal?
Scenario 2: Displaced parties gain the upper hand, and get the Maoists to join for a Democratic Republic. India-US-UK on their side. Popular, mass unrest nationwide. Maoist blockade also agitates the valley. Constitutional monarchy calls no longer viable due to the monarch's intransigence.
Neither look good for the king. Why does he still insist on going the Mahendra route? Love for father? 2005 is no 1960.
More news.
- http://www.newkerala.com/news-daily/news/features.php?action=fullnews&id=71949
Koirala's party declares war against king.... some Nepali Congress leaders have gone underground to plan their strategy against the royal move while some have gone to India to mobilise a mass movement from there......the Nepali Congress said its units, sister organisations and "well-wishers" would start peaceful protests in all of Nepal's 75 districts from Feb 18 .....82-year-old Koirala continues to be under house arrest.
- http://www.newkerala.com/news-daily/news/features.php?action=fullnews&id=71919
..says Sujata Koirala ...."Monarchy is doomed ...."If a referendum were held, he will hardly get any votes. ....her face showing no sign of fatigue after her audacious escape to India Friday after a five-day trek. ....Koirala's face darkened with fear as she spoke about an imminent threat to her father's life. ...."There is an internal royal plan to finish him. .....she came to India as she heard about the king's "insidious plan to persecute and torture her." We all want a democratic and republican form of government ..........Enunciating a likely grand alliance of pro-democracy forces and the Maoists ....Representatives of Nepal's leading political parties, including Nepali Congress and Jan Morcha (Communist) are already in India to mobilise support ....
In a broad-based campaign to mobilise support for their cause, they will meet all political parties in India and ambassadors of all foreign countries and request them for their help in this struggle.
They will also request India and the international community to stop aid to Nepal.
Any mention of King Gyananedra and his son filled her with passionate rage. "Both father and son are mad maniacs. What happened to Germany when a mad man ruled? Neighbours should be afraid of dangerous consequences of such a king ruling Nepal."
"He is a cruel king. He can do anything any time. His son is totally crazy. Can this crazy man become a king?" warns Koirala, a strong proponent for grassroot democracy.
- http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1021858.cms
Nepal's monarchs and its feudal establishment are prone to naked ruthlessness ......this decadent ruling elite continues to occupy the upper echelons of the army....But a year later, Mahendra struck, in a way that is eerily reminiscent of what his son has just done. .....set himself up for a confrontation between the palace and Maoists.
.....The king wants to rule through the armed forces and the insurgents with clandestinely-acquired firepower. .....Soon after 9/11, he declared the Maoists "terrorists" in the hope of winning Washington's sympathy.
- http://www.thestatesman.net/page.news.php?clid=3&theme=&usrsess=1&id=68878
1950 ......The Indian deputy prime Minister and home minister Sardar Vallabhai Patel made a very strong statement in Parliament refusing to recognise the Nepal prime Minister?s action. Countries like the USA and the UK followed suit........King Gyanendra?s actions have put serious question marks before the institution of monarchy itself. The number of supporters of the republican form of government is on the increase. The history of the monarchy in Nepal itself has not been that of a service and welfare-oriented institution. Many, indeed, feel King Gyanendra is hastening the end of monarchy in Nepal. ........
paramendra Posted on 02-16-05 11:35 AM Reply | Notify Admin
ome of the actions show King G does not have the Burma option in mind. Well, then, is it the Musharraf option, where you do allow elections down the line, but everyone knows who is in charge, you "fire" elected Prime Ministers, at least just one just to show who is in charge. That is not democracy, that is Musharrafism. But even that might be long term stuff if King G gets his way, highly unlikely. What about the short term? The immediate term?
- http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4269787.stm
"Necessary action has been taken against those involved in violation of human rights regardless of their ranks and will continue," state-run RSS media quoted Gen Pyar Jung Thapa as saying. ...... Nepal plans to relax curbs on civil rights gradually..
- http://www.newkerala.com/news-daily/news/features.php?action=fullnews&id=72838
The protesters shouted anti-king slogans outside the Nepali Consulate and burnt an effigy of king Gyanendra. .....For many years the people of Nepal have been demanding democracy and want abolition of the monarchy
- http://www.newkerala.com/news-daily/news/features.php?action=fullnews&id=72019
External Affairs Minister K.Natwar Singh on Monday told Nepal's envoy to India, Karna Dhoj Adhikari that the Himalyan kingdom must reinstate multi-party democracy, restore freedom of the media and take immediate steps for the release of political leaders, journalists and human rights activists. .....The meeting was held at the request of the Nepalese envoy.
- http://www.newkerala.com/news-daily/news/features.php?action=fullnews&id=72741
The Nepali Congress that had led pro-democracy movements in the 1950s and 1990s was the first political party to openly re-start its office .... Supporters, cadres, women activists and journalists flocked in while the armed police kept an eye on the party office from a van on the main road. ...... KC said though seven Nepalese parties have decided in New Delhi to form a united front and resist the royal coup, his party would stage a protest movement right on the soil of Nepal. ..... The Nepali Congress is said to be networking with the other parties in the country to present a united movement against the king. Ousted premier Deuba's Nepali Congress (Democratic) party is expected to join the opposition movement as well.
- http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=41962
US should join hands with India and Britain in warning Nepal that if it does not restore democratic freedom, the outside world would stop all support to the Himalayan kingdom .... a three-sided struggle is underway in Nepal--between a King who would return to absolute monarchy, insurgents inspired by the China of the 1950s and a democratic civil society that suddenly has been driven underground." The paper described as "delusional" the King's thinking that his methods would make progress against the Maoists who control large parts of the countryside and are renowned for their brutality...... The risk, it said, is of a new failed state in Asia, or a repeat of the brutal totalitarianism that once devastated China and Cambodia.
- http://www.newkerala.com/news-daily/news/features.php?action=fullnews&id=72700
After India, the US and Britain, Norway has summoned its ambassador back home .... Nepal's political isolation started with India, the US, Britian and France recalling their ambassadors
paramendra Posted on 02-16-05 9:17 PM Reply | Notify Admin
aloo and Gyanendra: http://paramendra.motime.com/1108588002
I have been following Laloo and Gyanendra. Laloo is by far the more interesting character. King G has no sense of humor. The guy does not know the joy of working within an electoral framework, the pressures, the pulls and pushes, ups and downs, forces at work. Looks like Laloo has a tough election going on in Bihar, and King G is hellbent on giving Nepal a tough time.
News.
- http://www.navhindtimes.com/stories.php?part=news&Story_ID=021718
RECENT developments have put paid to the slender hope that Nepal?s King Gyanendra Bir Bikram Shah Dev would substantially relax the draconian restrictions he imposed on the freedoms of expression, political activity and movement on February 1 ... It is unlikely that Chinese support alone would see King Gyanendra through all the troubles he?ll face. Under international pressure, Beijing could dump him as easily as it backed him. This happened in the early 1990s, when Nepal became a democracy. China is unlikely to forgo dividends from improved relations with India for dubious short-term influence within Nepal. ..... The Nepali economy, already in deep trouble, could face a virtual collapse. ... The longer the king resists this, the greater and more coherent the opposition will become. .... Seventy-eight percent favour either a limited monarchy or its abolition....Ninety-one percent of all Nepalis want either a new constitution ..... ...............stop supplying arms to the Royal Nepal Army and direct aid to the government ....recommendation of the International Commission of Jurists ... Nepal?s systematic abuse of human rights, including arbitrary detention and beating of civilian suspects. ....India supplied Rs 375 crores worth of arms to Nepal ..... The Maoists only have an estimated 3,000 modern guns. They use questionable, indeed deplorable, methods. But they are not terrorists. They have support in the countryside, which is a cesspool of unaddressed grievances and unredeemed injustices. These iniquities and grievances can only be addressed through land reform, popular empowerment and minimum needs programmes in health and education, and a sweeping drive against corruption. India must encourage this, not a military approach.
- http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1023156.cms
Arjun Narasingh KC, says. .. the first leader who has stepped out of the shadows....Narasingh, who has had his legs broken earlier by the king's forces .... "Please come with us," one of them orders Narasingh." The conference is over. The army has arrested Narasingh. He has just joined the 500 NC leaders who are captive.
- http://www.newkerala.com/news-daily/news/features.php?action=fullnews&id=71997
Pradeep Giri, a key member of the Nepali Congress (Democratic) Working Committee, called for the abolition of monarchy.....Giri said, adding that "we have also opened up channels of communications with the Maoists.'' ....The king is not a mercenary of any kind to deliver anything at all, except his personal glory and photograph. So, I think by four weeks or so, I don't give him much, so by the third or fourth week, people will see the futility and absurdity of this kind of action. .... Mr Rajendra Mahato of the NSP-A claimed that the censorship on the media was near total in Nepal.
- http://www.newkerala.com/news-daily/news/features.php?action=fullnews&id=72727
President of the International Federation of Journalists (IFJ) Christopher Warren was to arrive in Kathmandu Wednesday in response to appeals from Nepalese journalists.......IFJ represents more than 500,000 journalists in over 100 countries.
- http://www.telegraphindia.com/1050215/asp/nation/story_4380116.asp
Gyanendra pulled out 80-year-old Kirti Nidhi Bista from virtual oblivion .....Tulsi Giri ....The 79-year old, who had migrated to Sri Lanka a few years ago, was called by the palace for discussions three weeks ago and had been camping in a five-star hotel since.
paramendra Posted on 02-18-05 2:03 PM Reply | Notify Admin
ooks to me like the grondswell of grassroots protest has started although at only a trickle.
What amazes me is none of the parties are calling for a Democratic Republic. Save one, People's Front.
The king is responding to global pressure. And has said he will restore basic rights within 100 days.
- http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/02/18/news/kingdom.html
- http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,12297332%255E2703,00.html
King Gyanendra said yesterday he had seized power to save Nepalese democracy from communist rebels and corrupt politicians. .... King Gyanendra had assured the US he would start restoring democracy within 100 days. ... The guerrillas have responded by imposing a transport blockade on the Himalayan nation until the king restores fundamental rights to the people and releases his grip on power.
- http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=512371
Only eight protesters showed up in the capital, Katmandu, and they were promptly arrested.................On Friday, at least 36 people were arrested in Janakpur Since the king's takeover, the rebels have refrained from major assaults, except for an attack on a jail.
- http://www.newkerala.com/news-daily/news/features.php?action=fullnews&id=74156
Moods varied from incredulity to anger and outrage as people discovered in the morning the phones were no longer working. ..... the state machinery organised elaborate rallies
.... the protests ended in minutes and, in some cases, the activists took to their heels.
... swooped down on a rights activist while he was returning from a conference in Europe.
- http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/5983_1248020,00430005.htm
...."As a result of this sweeping censorship, media organisations have been shut down, journalists have been arrested, the public doesn't know what's going on and close to 800 journalists are out of work,"
- http://www.newkerala.com/news-daily/news/features.php?action=fullnews&id=74117
Even more affected are the daily labourers who used to earn about 100 rupees a day now they can't even manage 10
- http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1246403,001300980000.htm
a powerful six-member anti-graft commission that would probe and jail corrupt people and confiscate property amassed through abuse of authority and smuggling.
- http://www.bangladeshjournal.com/index.php?ID=3470
Nepal Army kills 43 terrorist rebels
- http://www.asiamedia.ucla.edu/article.asp?parentid=20866
In the hills, where the Maoists were making significant gains and setting up an entirely separate government, the group had a reputation for honesty, consistency, a sense of humour and astonishing brutality. .... By January of 2005, the Maoists controlled almost the entire area of Nepal outside the Kathmandu Valley. In their village theatre performances they began to co-opt the same heroic and martial rhetoric which had previously been used to legitimate the Shah dynasty......Ironically, the Shah dynasty found itself barricaded inside that same valley into which it had pinned the Newars 250 years before. ....There are some reports of popular protests, but by and large the country is keeping quiet.
- http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1024471.cms
- http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1024339.cms
"I haven't read a newspaper with any information on how the international community has reacted to the emergency in my country or what is the fate of arrested political leaders and human rights activists," said Madhav Pyakhurel, a businessmen.
- http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=42088
Nepal's King Gyanendra on Friday said that he took over power in order to save the country's democracy and talked about holding impartial elections.....
paramendra Posted on 02-18-05 2:08 PM Reply | Notify Admin
NSN
International Nepal Solidarity Network
http://www.insn.org/
paramendra Posted on 02-18-05 2:09 PM Reply | Notify Admin
- http://www.insn.org/
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